not believing this about preschoolers being unable to chew

[SolidButShamblingUndeadBrass]

Has anyone else heard something to the effect that due to evil chavvy parents who are Selfish and Don't Care, lots of reception-age children can't chew food properly as they have been fed so much slop their jaws haven't developed?
It just sounds implausible to me. I thought the oiks fed their DC Greggs products from 6 weeks old anyway and you need your bloody teeth to get through a steak bake...

Frank Field was discussing this problem (middle class parents being on the main attendess) with Sure Start on Woman's Hour very recently. It does seem to be improving via more outreach but I have to admit that the surestart activities I went to with my youngest were heavily colonised by the affluent middle classes.

berry, I grew up in your part of the world ...

When my kids were babies, we were given strict guidelines on when children had to start to be weaned or they lose various reflexes - this has all changed in a short period of time - we had to start weaning by 4months for example,now its 6 months.

I wonder if the shortage of health visitors has contributed to this problem where children cannot chew. If there were more HVs about, who took care of mums not just immediatelly after birth but also throughout early years, maybe they would pick up on these issues?

A mum of my acquaintance was moaning about her 1yo DD not eating lumps..."i tried giving her a packet of skips, but she just gagged on them..."

God I hate reading things like this! It does make me realise how much work some of our teachers have to do...and how heartbreaking it must be at times.

Poor kids.

i think they need to be educated cumbria pity won't help much

I though so Shongololo [hgrin]!

We're BLWing (DS 10 months old) but I can understand the fear of choking, and I don't think it is helped by the foods sold as appropriate for various ages.

I think you are right about the extended pureeing of food Hayzeyjane. I prob did it a bit too smooth for too long, but my two eat perfectly well so no harm done. I remember being (in a good way) at my cousin who came to visit and had not brought anything to give to her 8mo. She said - "He'll just have what we have" . OK it was chilli and rice,so not too chewy, but he wolfed it down in no time. I was very as my two older kids wouldn't eat it!

This is even more surreal than the comic sans thread. How terrible!

"We cannot reach those that we need to reach because they simply will not attend these groups. No matter if you run them in the day or night, no matter if you supply a free creche...they will not engage. Even personal invitations do not work. You can lead a horse to water and all that."

I'd rather be "on my high horse" than be so jaded and cynical I come out with crap like the above

and the anecdote about the Skips - yes, it's SO much easier to just slag off the parents and whine about how useless it all is

pathetic

and our teenage mothers' groups are oversubscribed

our basic cooking skills classes are full of parents who desperately need to learn basic cooking skills

if you wish to pull rank by identifying yourself as a "governor" of a children's centre rather than someone who merely "works in one", then perhaps you should give some thought to why YOUR children's centre isn't reaching the families who need the services

I'm glad you are not head of our children's centre

OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!! i can actually believe it! some people are such

Some people don't want help. My friend teaches a cooking skills class. The ingredients were provided, her 'help' ensured that the food was made properly and containers were provided.

The free food was left in the kitchen by one lazy mare who said that unless she was given a free taxi home she wasn't taking it because she didn't want to carry it on the bus. She was only there because of pressure from her social worker as she gave her three children crap- crisps,chips or sweets for every meal - because she 'couldn't cook'.

To ignore the fact that some of the main targets of the help don't want it is not jaded. It's realistic.

shongololo, I do agree with you to a certain extent that it is sometimes hard to get help to the people who need it. I think it is because sometimes the help might by mistaken for patronising.

Also this bit "we cannot get the Thai brides to come along, but its full - of au pairs." I think it is quite positive, as they will be parents one day and will already have had some basis for a good start. They can also pass on some of their knowledge to the family they work for maybe?

When my colleague's daughter brought home her 16 year-old boyfriend for a meal she was given a long list of things he wouldn't eat... anything that required biting or chewing, basically. Nothing wrong with his teeth or jaws. He admitted that he'd got into lazy habits as a toddler and never progressed (He didn't last long as a boyfriend)

I don't think it's jaded to say that some people don't want to be helped. Sad but true IME. That obviously doesn't mean we should stop trying and I dare say it is better to be idealistic, but there just are people who will never try to access these services.

My mum is a librarian and adores the bookstart scheme, which is primarily aimed at those who wouldn't otherwise access books. But those who need it most won't attend the libraries, clinics etc to get the free packs. Doesn't mean my mum stops trying but it's true :(

I remember DS aged 21 months on holiday in Crete, chewing calamari, a perfect jaw workout!

I remember my colleague trying to talk to her 9 mth dd's nursery about the consistency of the food they gave her, because it was too smooth and sloppy (cooked from fresh ingredients, then liquidised) They claimed they couldn't do different consistencies for all the babies! She asked if they could chop the food finely or mash it instead. They replied it would take too long if they had to do this for each child.

In the end, she left it and gave her dd lumpy/minced/ finger food at home.

I had a problem with a childminder who always spoon fed my ds, even though he was really good at spoonfeeding himself from 11 and a half months, because it was quicker and less mess. He never made a mess at home and never played with his food, liked it too much for that!
I doubt she had even tried. She was a former nursery nurse, so she could have at least seen for herself.

Sometimes it's hard to get other people on side, even if you are trying to do the best for your own dc.

I hate Froobs with a passion, they dont teach any skills in manipulating a spoon and the bloody strawberry ones are impossible to rinse out!

Greeny, the work you do is invaluable, I have been involved in promoting libraries in deprived areas and in working with young people and young parents to address these issues. I won't be defeatist, though it is not the easiest of tasks. Good luck to you and your front line staff and to the young people your work impacts upon.

DP and the staff team do excellent work in this field and are facing a withdrawal of funding next year. I am saddened and horrified by the effects these cuts will have on society, it will be even more divided than it is now.

GreenStinkingStumpSleeves

how very smug and self satisfied you appear.

So, as governor....im not pulling rank because Im a volunteer. i do not "merely" work at at CC, I give up my time freely and willingly to ensure that I am a critical friend to the childrens centre. Thats what a governor does. That means I have no vested interest in playing the system to get more funds to run useless courses that people wont attend. I dont have to pat myself on the back and congratulate myself and pretend Im doing great. I have to keep an eye on the strategic role of the CC within the wider community.

My responsibility is to ensure effective use of taxpayers money in reaching the people surestart was intended to reach.

As before, our classes are full, but we are not having a lot of sucess reaching some families - instead the classes are full of the "worried well" middle class and affluent families. On paper, we could claim to be a real sucess story. In reality, we are not.

This is not just our childrens centre - its recognised that this is a common problem across the country. This is compounded by the issue of our catchment area - we are covering a deprived area (in bottom 40%)and also covering an area in the top 99th centile for deprivation.

Id love to hear how others are tackling this problem- as stated, we run classes, we offer personal invites, we have free creches, we go to the families in a big bright bus, we are finally making some inroads with local HVs who are starting to refer people...but still there seems to be a barrier.

We did make big inroads with our traveller sites by going to them with a bus. We are now trying to reach out to an isolated community without public transport by doing the same. we've had some sucess with a handful of families, and hoping that they will encourage their friends along.

But on the estate where we are based, where we are within walking distance of many of the families....we cannot get them in the door.

You imply that we have given up, become jaded, and we are pathetic.

Clearly. No ideas here. No innovation.

It doesnt work in some areas to say "if you run it, they will come". They dont. Its our role to find out why, and keep trying different ideas and techniques and methods until we can reach out to them.

But you know what, you can carp on about how pathetic I am, or you can share the secrets of your sucess.
...what are YOU doing that makes a difference?
...how are you attracting hard to reach families?
...what courses are you running?
...what is your CC's demographic profile?
...how effective is your public transport system to get to you? If poor, how do you get around this?
...How do you advertise courses?

...How do you get young/teenager mums through the door?

...Who's referring to you... - hvs? GPs? Social Services? Playworkers? Churches?
...What are your most popular events?
...What time do you run things - day / afternoon / evening?
...When is the most popular course time?
...Do you charge for courses or are they all freebies?
...Do you run events over the school holidays?

Do share....

I have a friend who could not eat most "textured" foods until she was in her 20s. Partly it was because she was tube-fed as a baby after an oesophagus problem, but she is sure now that her parents gave in too easily and just fed her slop instead, right through her teenage years.

We were at university together and she taught herself to eat during her final year. She started with chunky soups, then moved on to harder things that she could dip in soup to make them easier to chew. Although she still has a lot of food hangups, she eats lots of things now, and is a good cook.
Sadly, her teeth are completely shot to bits and she still wears a gumshield at night to correct her jaw alignment.
It does happen, and I suspect it always has.

It is very hard to effect change in some deprived communities. My mum has worked in the same school for thirty years, on the council estate I lived on as a child. The same children she taught all those years ago come to the school, and largely have a similar set of problems, indeed the communication and eating issues seem to have got worse. She gets depressed sometimes about having thrown her heart and soul into improving literacy all these years, but seen little real change in people's life outcomes or prospects. I encourage her by telling her that although she may not have changed the whole, she has had many individual successes, children from illiterate families that have gone on to read, or who have had successful speech therapy so they are not bullied or whatever. Perhaps that's the gulf between what GreenStinkingStumpSleeves is saying and Shongolo's perspective. It's possible to change a few things for a few people in a community, but wholescale change, especially around food consumption is incredibly difficult and I don't think it's defeatist to point this out (otherwise why would obesity be at record levels?)

I meant to say that the children of the children she taught all those years ago are going to the same school, so you see the cycle of deprivation repeating itself in quite a short time-span, and yes, it is a bit depressing. They have also had a lot of money poured into the area, a brand new school, a brand new Sure Start centre (which actually is full of more deprived people as no-one really goes on the estate if you don't live there) and a community centre. The estate and the level of development of the children looks pretty much the same to me as when I left 30 years ago.

It seems to not be just what some children eat, but what they drink out of as well, I attended a parenting course and was told that the non-spill cups delay speech as they do not exercise the correct muscles for speech, they continue to use the same muscles that are used for breast and bottle. It appears to be such a problem here that I have a free flow cup from them with 'Every Lambeth child a talker'
I do hope perfect GreenStinkingStumpSleeves comes back and answers shongololo's questions. That would be much more helpful that criticizing others hard work?

?? How does this happen? Is it because they never give anything apart from puree?

My DD is 16 months and chews her meat. I didn't do anything particular to show her, she just started doing it herself. Don't they all do that?

Bumpsadaisie, that's what I thought.

But I suppose if the children are never given the lumps to practice on they never develop the skill.

It is so sad, and its even sadder to think that if these children don't realise the problem they will pass it on to their own children and the cycle will continue for generations to come.

I have been extremely lucky with DD, she weaned easily, eats very well and has no allergies but I didn't have a clue where to begin with weaning. It was trial and error and I was always worried she would choke on the lumps. But she didn't and now at 2.7 there isn't anything she wont eat.

It makes me so sad for the parents that don't know how or where to get the help, or even know that what they're doing is incorrect :(

My ds from the age of 6 months could not/ would not chew. This led to anything that had the slightest texture being gagged on, and we went through a highchair, countless bibs and clothing becuaes they were all covered in vomit.
He was investigated at just over a year old for having a throat problem - but when this proved nothing wrong it was decided it was behavioural. He was becoming underweight, and was so frustrating for us as by then all he would eat was yoghurt and purees. He then had to spend the next 2 years as an out-patient at hospital and taking vitamins until he was eating a variety of foods and gaining weight.
It was an awful time for us - as you feel it must be your fault your child wont eat. We tried to introduce everything we could into his diet - but to watch your child gag and then vomit time and time again was heartbreaking and exhausting for us.

Luckily by the time he reached the age of 3 - his diet was the same as any other 3 year old, but to get to the stage where he will eat most food has been a long hard road. There are still some textures he wont eat - and if his mouth feels too 'full' he will spit it out. It certainly has not been through laziness on my part.

I've known kids arrive in reception still on bottles and not solid food because it hasn't occured to their parents to wean them. These days, sadly, I'll believe most things of this kind - because like most people who work with kids, you see it all, and then some, over the years.

As for Froobs... pain in the rear - I end up opening them on school trips and the things have some kind of vendetta against me because I end up wearing half of the berlumming things.