to think that the Goverment's plans for Social Housing are disastrous

[donkeyderby]

Are beloved Govt are talking about charging 80 - 90% of market rents for social housing.

I'm not in favour of ridiculously low rents for council tenants, but won't this simply place thousands more people in the Housing Benefit trap of not being able to afford to work?

Uncontrolled property prices have contributed significantly to our society of haves and have nots and private rental prices must be keeping so many people chained to Housing Benefit. The average price for a 3 bedroom property in our area is around the £1000 per month mark. How can that be affordable to someone on a low wage? Ditto £900 PCM.

How will this work apart from going back to some Victorian era of cramming families into one bedroom?

Gin anyone?

I have a thread about this in politics as am going to a local council meeting about housing changes this week and wanted to know what people thought about it all.

What I dont understand is where all of these people forced to move will go to - they cant all be fitted into the cheap areas and what happens to the pressures on local services in these areas?

I mean you can only move so far out of London before it starts becoming expensive again - its not exactly the same as paris in that respect.

Ok, this is not a topic I know much about, but as far as I can see there are three ways of approaching social housing:

1. Government builds/owns and rents out social housing at reduced rents and on long leases. However private rented housing is very lightly regulated and hence very expenseive. (i.e. the current system).

Problem with this is (a) there is a shortage of council housing (and the govt doesn't have the money to build enough) and so there is a big divide between the lucky ones who get one and the unlucky who don't (b) it means the govt has huge costs in looking after and distributing all the social housing it owns.

1. Government does not own or rent out any housing. Instead, private landlords are forced to offer housing on longer leases and at lower rents (and conditions are inspected).

Problem with this is that being a landlord will no longer be such a good option and so people won't want to buy-to-let. That will in turn mean fewer places to rent available. On the other hand it would be easier to buy.

Also some govt costs in regulating/inspecting private landlords (though probably less than the costs of the govt running the social housing itself).

1. Govt does not rent out property, and private landlords are not regulated. Instead, income-based benefits (JSA, WTC etc) go UP so that those in low paid jobs can afford private rents.

Problem with this is it means the govt is paying out more in benefits which simply ends up in the private landlords' pockets.

I know this is an oversimplification but from the above it seems like (2) might be a decent option. Any thoughts? As I say, this is not really an area I know anything about, so I've probably missed something very obvious.

Instead, private landlords are forced to offer housing on longer leases and at lower rents (and conditions are inspected).

"forced" - they'll sell up en masse. As I said above, most rents cover mortgages and not much more, there are voids, repairs, service charges etc to pay. The majority of landlords are small scale.

how will they get round the landlords not accepting dss/hb/pets/children......thats a BIG problem

I refer you back to my previous post outlining the official Conservative Party line: "Fuck them".

It was always going to be this way with the fucking Tories in power. I think TethHearseEnd has summed it up a treat.

"Pull the ladder up Jack and sod the rest"

I think you mean Gideon rather than Jack.

Dh and I had quite a set to about this last night. He thought it a marvellous wheeze at first - saying nobody was entitled to a house for life etc. So I pointed out that halving the budget wasn't going to help people find homes, that security of tenure is key in helping people establish roots in a community, find jobs and childcare and that the last time the Tories were in charge of social housing they made the awful mess we are currently dealing with. I also pointed out that if you were to evict the feckless and undeserving you would still have to house their children or risk even greater social disintegration and alienation.
He came round to my point of view.

I grew up under Thatcher - I shouldn't be surprised by all this - but you know what I still am stunned by how breathtakingly cynical, nasty and divise the Tories are. The supposed financial crisis is a gift to them - allows them to demolish the welfare state because they hate it and they always have. If they win anothe election I am sure the NHS will be in the firing line then. I can't understand why people are rioting already! (Yes I predict a riot!)

I can't understand why people vote against their own interests.

Oh, yes I can.

why people ^aren't rioting that should be - and it should be 'feckless and undeserving' - that's not how I view anyone! Soory - am v cross!

Soory? Oh bollocks - I give up!

"The supposed financial crisis is a gift to them - allows them to demolish the welfare state because they hate it and they always have."

Hoh yes.

Well actually they hate anything with "state" appended or indeed anywhere near it. They are going much further than Thatcher ever dared.

And we are letting them.

I brought this up in the other thread.

They won't be happy until everyone who's not as rich as they are moves back into the old servants quarters of their mansions, answers the bell when rung and then disappears without a sound.

(It's Northernlurker here tw in my halloween name )

The only thing I have read from the Tories that pleased me was this on another thread:

Research shows that quality music education improves behaviour, attention and concentration, and has a hugely positive affect on numeracy and language skills.

From Michael Gove's own website

Rents only went up with the introduction of the LHA - Local Housing Allowance when Labour govt stepped in with billions of taxpayers money to line the pockets of buy-to-let landlords who put up rents literally overnight by 50-100% in some cases.

What happened then - the very taxpayers who financed this scam found themselves overpriced even out of rental market (let alone property ownership)

The govt is the biggest tenant and by this virtue it can dictate rental prices

As it drove them up in the past it will drive them down now - there is simply no money left

The BBC is so ashamed of the total amount spent on housing, it refuses to publish the amount

For BTLs who overstreched themselves bidding ridiculous amounts for crappy city centre appartments is time to wake up and smell the coffee

What is unreasonable is that anyone is surprised by any of this. I agree with Hully - this is the Tories finishing what Thatcher started.

"The Coalition government's measures to cut spending on Britians huge £110 billion benefits bill by £11 billion per year by 2014-15 is being met with much outrage and indignation by vested interests. However it is ordinary tax payers who should feel the real indignation when they find out that people are able to claim upto £1,000 per week, that's £52,000 per year in housing benefits alone, which is more than twice the average salary."

"The coalition government's intention is to lower the cap on housing benefit from £1000 per week to £400 per week which would still amount to £20,800 per year for this just one benefit, it is no wonder that as many as 3 million people of the 8 million that are economically inactive choose not to work as in a many cases they are able to receive far more in benefits than average earnings."

buy-to-let landlords who put up rents literally overnight by 50-100% in some cases.

Can I have a concrete example of this? Just one will do.

The time must be ripe for public opinion to galvinise into action and show this bloody govt:

we are not fools or fooled by your crap, we know this is about ideology

we are going to get you out of power and not in four years but very very soon.

Slightly different subject but when I was a student 20+ years ago we took to the streets and waved placards about over everything that bitch Thatcher did - granted it didn't do any good. But come on Britain - don't let's take it lying down.

Oxford

"Under Labour the benefits culture has gone completely out of control where people are rewarded for NOT working."

"Despite 10 Years of debt fuelled Economic Boom into the End of 2007 the Benefits Class had continued to grow relentless and now totals more than 8 million of those of working age against the working population of 28 million."

Don't you think it would be a good idea to attribute your quotes, 3xpink?

I think they may be coming from unspecified... voices.

Or else they are from Mr. Tory Toryson, Tory road, Toryville.