Opinions please: Do I go and tell dd's teacher that she got this wrong?

[emkana]

following on from this, sorry to go on about it but I keep changing my mind whether to go to teacher or whether to leave it, and how I could hate it in a way that will not make her hate me, if I pretend to be confused when I know full well she is wrong is that not patronizing?

Exactly! I see it now with my dd's learning French - they just learn the phrase "Je m'appelle", but they don't learn what it is made up of, so it's just parrot fashion without any real understanding!

Please have a word with the teacher. Just out of principle I think a teacher should know correct grammar if they are teaching it.

And how embarassing that a German person has to point this out...

I don't agree, emkana. I am not English, by the way, but I suspect that one of the reasons that English people do not learn a wide range of languages is that a) they don't see the finctional value of them and b) they are not compulsory at school. I don't believe that learning languages in a systematic, formal way really aids functional written or spoken communication. It can, if anything, detract from acquiring an ear for the subtle nuances of a living language.

I'd like you to explain how this error will have any functional or lasting impact on any student in this teacher's class.

functional, not finctional. Sorry.

Okay, here goes:

My other dd, who is in Year 5, is currently writing a leaflet in her English lessons and was told to use lots of imperative verbs. If she had no real understanding of what an imperative is, she would be limited in expressing herself in this leaflet, because she would think that only certain verbs are imperative.

Apart from anything else the teacher is plain wrong. There shouldn't be any of us exempt from having this pointed out.

Apart from me, Hully.

Obviously.

Wrong.

No exceptions.

Perhaps Bran, at a pinch.

As I recall, though, there was some disagreement about some of the examples you gave e.g. "enjoy" could be categorised as optative vs imperative.

I do wonder if perhaps there has been some miscommunication e.g. perhaps,during teaching time a child in the class when asked to form an imperative, gave an example of "I hope you enjoy your food" or "I asked Mary to talk to me" which the teacher pointed out was not imperative, with the meaning lost in translation?

I can't help but think that your true motivation here is simply to point out that the teacher is wrong because, on the information you have, you know she is. If you were her colleague or her friend or if you had any doubt about whether or not you were right, I would see this as being very reasonable. However, in this instance, I think you just want to say it because you can. I think it will embarrass the teacher and make no difference to her teaching.

arses - nonsense.

A lot of young teachers sadly don't know very much at all. My dd had a 22 yr old teacher who was utterly utterly lovely and knew fuck all about anything. She was teaching the children about Florence Nightingale and asked them to do a little project. Dd (all keen) got on the computer and found out lots of things including the fact that Florence actuall killed more soldiers than anyone else because her hospital was built over a sewer etc etc.

Oh dear, said the teacher quietly to me, that's not in my teaching notes, I think we won't confuse the children with that.

Oh, right then.

I don't see your point, Hullygully? What was it I said that was nonsense exactly?

I'm sure lots of young teachers don't know as much as they should, but I am a bit at the motivations of parents choosing to educate them.

Your experience with an poorly educated teacher doesn't mean that this particular instance doesn't involve crossed wires in the classroom. Not all teachers are idiots, you know. Mostly, they know more than the children.

Dd had to do a homework. There was a list of words,

make
do
chair
talk
glove

etc. She had to underline all the imperatives. She underlined all talk and the teacher marked it as wrong.

Then she had to draw a little cartoon in which an imperative word is used. She drew a waitress and a man at a table, the waitress says to the man "Enjoy your food!" Teacher marked this as wrong.

So I didn't misconstrue anything.

I want to tell her because I think all children deserve to be taught the actual facts, not just those who have parents who know better.

I can't help but think that your true motivation here is simply to point out that the teacher is wrong because, on the information you have, you know she is

that's the nonsense

Well, go for it then. I don't believe it is your desire for quality education for all, though.

arses, there's a big difference between not knowing something, and thinking you know something, when in fact you don't, you've been taught wrongly.

If you simply don't know grammar, you're never going to make yourself sound an idiot. But if you think you 'know' that only some verbs can have imperatives, you may do so. It's not fair on the children in that class to be taught something wrong when they will take it as true.

Have you ever had that experience of innocently repeating something you thought was correct and finding out it's not? It's makes you want to sink through the floor, and if a teacher has taught you it, it'll put you right off that teacher!

I had a similar situation. The teacher had marked spelling wrong, when they were right.

DS was really angry.

I went to speak to the teacher and she blamed the TA.

When I left the teacher and the Ta were having a heated argument.

It was quite funny.

Fine. I suppose I wonder why Emkana has posted here again about this, given that her only concern is the education of the children.

If she is truly, genuinely disturbed at this miscarriage of education, I can't see why she needs two threads to mull over how terrible it is that a teacher has made an error in her definition of imperative verbs. If it was really that concerning to her (because of all the children with parents who won't know better) she should have immediately taken it up with the teacher e.g. written a note on the homework asking for clarification, perhaps with a printed out definition of the term.

Dealing with it immediately would have made sense in this situation. Two threads later, it seems to me that she is making a point that she understands grammar better than the teacher.

I'm an English teacher and I think you should point it out especially because she's an NQT. You're helping her be better at her job ffs.

And I wouldn't worry about dd; for the most part it's the squeaky wheel that gets the oil in classrooms soshe's more likely to get better marking, attention and challenge if the teacher thinks her mum is likely to kick up a fuss.

I think you should point it out.

The teacher is wrong, why should this not be pointed out to her?

If she is in her late 20s she would have been part educated in the bad old days before the national curriculum, where NO grammar was taught at all. I never knew how to place apostrophes and speech marks until we all had a crash course at senior school. The teacher possible did not have a thorough grounding in grammar herself. I think it would be useful to point it out to her.

I suspect Emkana is posting on this because she is NICE and wants to be reasonable and kind and tactful while also wanting her daughter's teacher to not teach her incorrectly which is entirely reasonable. Emkana has not been melodramatic and used hyperbole, unlike the odd poster here.

I think so too really. It's hard enough to tackle these kind of situations in your own culture but if you are a foreigner in the UK, you must feel like you're walking on eggs half the time. I wouldn't like my dd taught something which is not correct but I would also not know how best to broach it.

She clearly does not want to hurt the teacher's feelings, while not wanting her to pass on incorrect information.

Ooooh you are all so nice and civic-minded! .

Again, if the primary concern here is the education of the children, why not enclose a simple note politely reqesting clarification at the time? Why wait until visiting to school? Is this really worthy of a face to face meeting?