to think my mum should let my dad go on holiday?

[peeweewee]

My Mum hates travelling and always made a fuss about family holidays when I was growing up. She now sadly suffers badly from rheumatoid arthritis and needs my dad to help do things around the house for her (eg she struggles to walk very far at all).

My parents are both from Europe even though they live in Australia. My dad is approaching 80 and would love to go to Europe to visit his brothers and sisters (due to age two of them died last year). Mum simply won't let him go - emotional blackmail techniques. She makes it out that he would be abandoning her to go, even for a fortnight.

I have even offered to fly back to Australia to look after her while dad goes to Europe, but she won't have it. It has to be Dad or no-one.

I asked Dad why he doesn't just put his foot down and he says he thinks it would destroy his marriage. I applaud him for sticking by his principles but I'm furious with my mother!!!

i'm not surprised
why don't you ring and talk to her?

yanbu

I've tried that. She says "He doesn't really want to go anyway" and when I point out that he does, she just calmly disagrees with me, as if "what would you know, you live in the UK"...my sister has had no luck trying to convince her either.

Is she just a bitch??? (oh I feel so guilty for saying that out loud!)

Your poor dad, that's so sad - not sure what anyone can really do in this situation but you could try talking direct to your mum and emphasise how important it is for him to see his brothers and sisters. Sounds like his wife is already destroying the marriage with her behaviour.

YANBU, but I can imagine your mum is petrified at the idea of him going away. It is a loss of control in her life, and she probably has very little control over much of her life now.

That type of dependency is hugely draining though, so I think your dad could probably do with a break. What's the worst your mum could do? Sulk a bit? Let's be honest, she's not going to leave him or throw him out if she's that dependent on him.

would she come and visit you while he was with his family?

i have to say i think i would do anything in my power to makie it happen for him.
has anyone actually told her how spiteful she is being?

i. will. not. become. my. mother.

She's too unwell to travel. well, she probably could if she really wanted to but she hates it so it's a perfect excuse. Our family tiptoe around each other politely - anytime I've tried to say something that harsh to Mum she gets offended and hurt and says, "that's not very nice" as though I've stabbed her in the chest.

i would be very tempted to organise it all without either of them knowing. somehow.
then just show up and say "ta daaa!!! dad, off you go. mum i'm here to stay"

realise that would be hugely expensive though

Sidge she's so manipulative she'd make his life hell. She threatens to leave (she's been doing that since I can remember though), or that he just doesn't love her. He's acknowledged that and to keep the peace he's not going to push it. She finally let him buy a camera for the old and hideously dated crap computer so that he can skype his family (she wouldn't let him buy a new mac though).

Sorry just need to rant

My sister and I would do it, thisisyesterday. Tried it last year but Dad refused on the grounds that his life would be hell.

Might try it again without telling Dad and just force him into it . Like that idea a lot!!

yep just turn up on their doorstep!

actually really, how wonderful would that be? your mum couldn't be cross with him because he would have known nothing about it.

Hmm if I were him I'd call her bluff and say "off you go then, then I can go and see my family" - I'm sure she'd wet her pants!

It's difficult but if your dad doesn't stand up to her a bit then he can't help himself and no-one can help him either. I know that's easier said than done though

I know - sounds great!! I'm going to email my sister now - I'm going back next August and I'll get her to arrange a ticket THANK YOU!!!!

sorry x posted

I can understand where you are coming from. My mum was very ill for years with lupus, and wouldn't "allow" my dad to go anywhere, especially as her condition worsened. I could understand that she felt so completely dependant on him (as he was so good at caring for her, and took it all in his stride) that the thought of him not being there just in case she needed him was too much to contemplate.

I do feel bad for your dad, but I was forced to try to accept how much illness, pain and fear had changed my mum's personality. Her thinking didn't seem to be rational, and she couldn't accept logic- her thinking was right, and everything had to be her way, because she was ill. The worst example of this was my wedding. The whole thing was organised with all her needs as priority- the venue had to be local, we had to be able to bring a wheelchair, no steps, facilities for her to be able to go for a lie down if necessary, facilities for her to be able to have access to her oxygen, cars that she could access. I tried to get her involved with choosing flowers etc, but she sulked, because the attention was not directly on her. I paid to have her hair cut and took her shopping for a new outfit- which took longer than finding my wedding dress and cost far more!! I consulted her about the food, the band, but she was very cool about the whole thing.

On the day she was a nightmare. She insisted my dad be there constantly- she even interrupted my photos with him at home to insist he put a dirty cup in the sink! She refused to let him leave her side (I didn't even get a dance with him) and they left early at her insistence. I was very very hurt, but I had to just accept that the illness had changed her, and to understand that someone behaving so meanly is obviously not a happy soul.

She has been dad now for 6 years, and my dad is free to do all the things he couldn't for the last 20 years- he motorbikes, hillwalks, fishes, spends loads of time with his grandkids, has poker nights with his brothers (of whom my mum was thoroughly disapproving, for no rational reason!) I am please he is getting a chance to do all these things, but do you know, he just wishes she was still here, and would give it all up to have her back. Such is the power of love, so cut your dad a little slack too for his apparent "weakness"

Jooly sorry to hear about your Mum

My Mum also has Lupus with the RA. I feel sorry for the chronic pain she is in and I know how grumpy I get when I have any pain, but she just seems like a cow! She is completely irrational, and if the attention is not always on her then she is an even bigger victim.

I feel for your Dad though - to still wish she was here, is just lovely. Hope I find someone who loves me that much one day!!

peeweewee, I know exactly where you are coming from! My mum seemed to change from a generous (actually pretty selfless) person to a needy, attention-seeking diva. As I said, it really came home to me on my wedding day- she couldn't bear not be the focus of everyone's attention for even one day. She refused to even tell me I looked nice, and refused to carry a spare pair of stockings for me in her bag, as she "didn't have room!" She was horrible! And at the wedding everyone kept coming up to me to tell me how brave and wonderful she was! It has taken me years to get past the person she became in the last few years and remember the mum I once had with affection. It is a truly horrible illness, and maybe you can never really understand what the person suffering it goes through, although this is in retrospect: my mum drove me potty when she was alive, so I'm not going to sit here and do any of the "be grateful you still have her" stuff, because it is hell to try to deal with- I remember only too well!

i know it's not as good but could you help them skype each other? Your Dad and his brothers?

Well, I'd be nervous of an 80 year old traveling from Australia to Europe. I wouldn't want my elderly dad doing it alone, let alone a husband.

I can see your mum's point. She is ill, and she wants her husband with her, he's her sole source of comfort and physical/emotional support. Removing that will be very stressful for her (a bit like for a child separated from its parents, except she knows her elderly, frail husband is 24 hours' flight away, and isn't going to fall for a trip to the park to distract her!).

And at the end of the day, they are a married couple, and they have to decide things together. You have offered to help out so he can go, and beyond that, I think you should not interfere.

Jooly I wish I could remember my mum before she became ill but I was too young. These days she says things that I wouldn't say to anyone I cared about! (same sorts of things, like, "haven't you done your hair today?" or "I wouldn't bother doing {whatever}... it won't work out" etc). So I can't help wondering how much is her illness and how much is just her taking advantage of it.

Alfa I see your point but Dad is pretty fit. He still plays golf a few times per week and walks the dog every day. Also, I can't get past Mum's selfishness!!! Does marriage take place over Dad seeing his siblings for the last time before they all pass away? It just feels too unfair.

SMGS I can't as I'm over here and Dad is in Australia but my sister helps with this. He loves it!!

Peewee, I do sympathise, sorry if my post sounded harsh. I just think that when people move overseas, there are hard consequences, and you parents are facing them now. But yes, marriage should take precedence over siblings, if you have to choose, which your father does.

And if he's fit, able, competent enough to make the trip, he's able to argue the point with this his wife. So unless your mother is not mentally competent, in which case you can involve yourself in the decision making process, you really have to leave them to it. I think, anyway.

Alfa you don't sound harsh I just wonder how much of a marriage it really is anyway...do you really think I should leave them to it? Thanks for your sympathies, the whole thing does scare me a bit, both about marriage and committing to moving overseas. I'm a bit too angry with Mum to understand her point of view - if I loved someone I'd want to make them happy and I can't understand her inability to give him that.

It's a very hard lesson to learn but we can never see inside completely someone else's marriage, even when they are our own parents. You have offered, you can cajole or discuss, but it is your father's decision to stay, no matter how wrong you may think it. For his own reasons, he has decided that staying with your mum is more important than his own trip. As long as they both know that you will help in any way, you can do no more.

Gosh, peewee- your mum sounds so like mine was! She used to say things exactly like that, and was rude and impatient in shops etc which made me want to curl up and die with embarassment!

Re: your dad- what does he say about her? My dad always used to stick up for my mum, reminding me how ill she was, which also drove me daft! Dad was/ is a really likeable, social, fit and active type of guy. It amazed me that he wasn't more frustrated by my mum chaining him to her and asked him once if he never felt it unfair that the fit, happy girl he had married had turned into this cantankerous needy woman. He looked at me with genuine lack of comprehension and said "but it's so much worse for your mother! Yes, I feel it's unfair for her. But I love her. I just wish I could make her better". I felt really quite humbled by the obvious depth of his feelings for her. Now, don't get me wrong- they bickered and squabbled, and she was always telling him he didn't love her (!). The one time I saw him really really lose it with her was over the silliest thing. The social department told my mum she qualified for a wheelchair ramp. Now, mum only went in a wheelchair when dad took her out somewhere in the car. Dad said it was pointless- she couldn't use the wheelchair on her own, and he didn't need the ramp. She was determined that if she was entitled to it she was having it, so dad came home one day to find this awful, ugly gigantic ramp the full length of the house- he went ape, threatened to leave!

My point is that you and others can look in from the outside and feel sorry for your dad and what he has to deal with, but, if like my dad, he genuinely loves your mum, her happiness will be his priority, which is actually quite amazing. It's only really since my mum has been gone that I realise how much she meant to my dad, and how little all the things he is now free to do mean in comparison. As you say, my DH has a lot to live up to!