do you think some aspects of English culture are selfish?

[lilystyles]

Does anyone else find quite a selfish English attitude when it comes to family? I was brought up on the French Spanish border by a French mum & English Dad. Elderly people were revered and respected and children were welcome in restaurants etc... breastfeeding in public was teh norm and teh overwelming majority of retired grandparents were more than happy to look after their grandkids a few days a week. I find it soooo different over here, breastfeeding in public seems to be seen as perverse by some people, people get sniffy about kids in restaurants, and elderly people seem to be an annoyance to a lot of their kids. My retired mother in law has my son for a morning a week and sees this as her being extremely generous. It is just very very different in England, has anyone else noticed this?

Yes, I agree, but I prefer it this way

I think you're generalising about both cultures to be honest.

If we're going to generalise then yes, people are more family orientated in poorer countries as there's less focus on material possessions and people work fewer hours.

There isn't one English culture though. In England/Britain cultures are influenced by factors such as class, religion, race and where we live (region). You can't lump it all together I'm afraid. What you describe above does not reflect my experiences of bf in public or children in restaurants. Where I live is very multicultural so perhaps that breeds tolerance.

Yes I have noticed that too, although it doesnt apply to me as I live in Northern Ireland and have very lovely in laws!

But I have lived in England for a couple of years, and have family and many friends there, and yes, a good few of my friends have younk children and babies and cannot really count on the grandparents to help much as the grandparents are enjoying their own lives, retired able to travel, pursue other interests etc which is fine, quite understandable too, but means they are not around to help much.

In some ways in Ireland it is too much the other way, I think that grandparents are taken for granted quite a lot, its assumed they will want to look after their grandkids, iykwim..

The other big difference i notice is that over here people tend to look after their elderly relatives more at home, like take them in to their homes to live, whereas some of my english friends would be quite firm that they should go in to a home to be looked after, here it is more assumed that you would care for your old parents yourself, unless they have some very debilitating condition like alzheimers or dementia, and even in those cases many families refuse to put them in to care.

Is this only ro do with countries/cultures or with times aswell?

In your OP you are talking about the past, when you were growing up. We, 'foreigners' tend to do this, we sometimes talk about our countries how they were 20 years ago and compare that with Britain today...

But i do agree that 'family' is a bit different here in uk. Depends which part of the country aswell.

It's the same there now as it was then, but I'm just talking in the past tense as I've lived here since I was 18

You can't cherry pick the bits you want! In UK, mothers may want everyone to love their DC and be part of the extended family- but they are not willing to have what goes with it e.g. complete strangers touching their baby, talking to their DC, MIL being important etc etc. Generally parents in UK want total control over every situation.

I'd say it's not selfishness but how child-centred the culture is not here. Some cultures are more child-centred than others, most Anglo-cultures are not at all child-centred.

I decided to raise my children like a Mexican family would (I grew up near Mexico). Which means that my children are with me most of the time they're not in school, and are part of most aspects of my life. I don't compartmentalise them and what they do: where they sleep, how they recreate, etc., into purely child and not at all adult spaces/times/habits.

Many British people would find those concepts entirely ghastly! Children should be seen and not heard, etc.

who on earth in Britain believes children should be seen and not heard? Most times, its hard to get children to shut up!

I think it's a big generalisation you're making. We live in Scotland and at ds2's nursery and ds1's school, loads of the children are dropped off/picked up and looked after by their grandparents or other family memebers(ie not their parents). If you live in the South-east, you're probably getting a very unrepresentative picture because so many people live a long way from their parents. That said, my MIL down south looked after my DN when she was little and SIL was working, in London, and my DM is currently with ds1 at the supermarket while I MN work.

massive generalisations there!!

I don't think that people would mind children being seen and heard if they were allowed to interact and tell children off or be friendly, without people suspecting their motives. It won't work while parents expect them to smile indulgently on their badly behaved DCs because 'only mummy can tell them off' or 'strangers shouldn't touch my baby'.

I'm French-Italian heritage and I definitly prefer Italian culture. I actually think French and English are quite similar children wise- you are expected to be very very polite.
Weirdly though I think oop north where I live now is strangely Italian, lots of families, very talkative, strangers very friendly to kids..
But I love all of the places I've lived so yabu

Yes, of course!

But define English/British culture first.

Are you in need of a holiday and thinking of the good old days?!!

It may be a generalisation but it is also my honest experience in teh differences between living in England and were I come from. I am just interested to know whether others have similar experiences.

I've had a wide range of experiences, in different parts of the UK and Southern Africa.

WowOoo - Yep probably need a holiday! I don't really know how to define English culture, I just know in my experiences here in England there has been a different approach to family

MaMoTTaT - and in your experiences do you notice a difference in attitudes to family?

no - that's what I just said - I've experienced massive variations over the UK, and in Southern Africa, from one extreme to the other in both countries.

Even within my close network of friends the variations are huge.

That doesn't sound like anyone I know, sorry.

We can see cultures as having their 'good' and 'bad' points, but the bottom line is that they're just different.

I have an elderly French relative who keeps a mistress. His wife doesn't like this, but accepts it because its nothing unusual to them - part of their culture. It doesn't wash too well with the English relatives.

My MiL does childcare for us once a week and absolutely loves it. We also spend every Sunday round at theirs for the whole day so the family are all together. My mother wouldn't be up for that at all, yet they're both middle class, southern English.

One observation, its often in rural areas that you will see extended family playing a larger role in kids lives because it is more often the case (though this is changing) that family in rural areas will stay closer together geographically. Fewer large employers = more family run businesses = families staying closer together to keep things ticking over. Also, the family home in rural areas is more likely to be owneed outright, less likely to be moved away from and so becomes more of a family 'hub'. Again, this is a generalisation, but I've found this to be true regardless of the country (have only experienced Europe and USA though).

My husband is Turkish and one of the things he says is that English people are so much more selfish than Turkish people. They don't take care of the older members of their family and they dont welcome children as much as in Turkey either.

Obviously he is just talking generally but I think it backs up what you are saying lilystyles.

'selfish' is a strong and negative word. I think there is here more emphasis on self-efficiency. In our countries there is more dependency between family members which has its own problems.

I'm also going to generalise here but actually, in Spain there's the selfish assumption that grandparents are there for the sole purpose of looking after their grandchildren whilst their parents continue with their careers. Very rarely they get remunerated for this very hard job and sometimes people just continue having children with total disregard to their own parents who will then be lumbered with their offspring. More often than not, it is the case in Spain that both parents work so during the week, the parks and playgrounds are deserted except for a few scattered grandpas and grandmas here and there, and they do that day in day out. No one can argue that it is a privilege for both grandchildren and grandparents to spend quality time together, but in my opinion people take advantage of their parents at a time in their lives when they're probably ready to slow down and maybe do something they always wanted to do after a lifetime of work.