private/state/faith - what would you ddo

[mumtryingtodotherightthing]

Hi all

(name changed to protect the innocent ie me)

I am wrestling with a dilemma and would love to get some outside opinions.

So, I live in Hackney, have done for 12 years. I have one son, a normal, lovely little boy. he is due to start primary in September.

Some friends had moved out of our area when they had kids, citing the schools. I always thought, what rubbish, the schools are fine, I will stay. I always felt that I kept faith with an area which has had bad press, and I wanted to stay as this was where I'd chosen to have my home and I would live there.

There is a lovely local school, which most of the children in out street go to. I (probably naively,) thought that my son would go there.

Unfortunately, in the last couple of years the area has become quite trendy, and people have started moving here to have families, taking advantage of the lower cost housing.

Now the school where I had always intended to send my son has shrunk its catchment are from 1km to 253m. We live 700m away.

There is a Catholic school nearby. This doesn't seem to have a catchment area as all the admissions were faith based (according to the LA prospectus thing I picked up from hackney Council)

There are two schools which are so bad they have enormous catchment areas. One was in the local paper recently as there was a gang trying to recruit the older children to sell cannabis. Its also a pretty bad school academically.

The other is safe but generally rubbish, getting 4 on all the OFSTED reports with loads of children leaving at age 7 to go private or leaving the area. The quality of the teaching was really panned by OFSTED.

So - based on the fact that I want to do the right thing, be true to the area I have chosen to be my home and love, and want to ensure that my son goes to a school he thrives in as any decision must take him into account: what would you do (some of these are obviously not but are what I know other families in the area are doing...)

1. lie about where you live using mail drop , grannies address etc

1. move house for a year to get closer to the school

1. lie about religion, get son baptised even though I really have no truck with Catholicism, send son to a staunchly, overtly Catholic school where he will effectively have to brought up as a practicing Catholic.

1. send son to drug recruiter school

1. send son to rubbish school, know that he will not get good education there, top up with tutors

1. go private to local prep which has a great rep and has a nice multiracial mix reflective of the area

1. move to another part of London, or to the country

(I'll post in education as well, but fancied a bit of brutal honesty)

Calm down a bit, it's not a once and for all decision. The most obvious pragmatic option is:

Ignore local gossip, go and visit all the possible schools to see whether you like the vibe and get on with the headteacher. Make your application to the school you'd like best and two others (or however many choices you get these days) which you think might be okay. When the offers come through, accept place in whatever school you get offered and remain on the waiting list for the others.

WAit and see what other places you get offered -- the council's admissions stats refer to places offered on National Offer day. The distance actually offered by Sept will be a lot further, and places come up later on in Reception and Y1, even in the most over-subscribed schools. Hackney has such a mobile population, and lots of people move out of the area and don't tell the school. You can get on the waiting list for schools in the wider area as well.

If you don't get a higher offer before September, then take up the offered place and see how it goes. It may not be what you hoped for, but it won't be the lion's den either. All the headlines about drug dealing the playground are almost certainly overplayed, and will definitely not apply to Reception children. A 4yo is a 4yo, in the end -- they're busy learning to sit still, listen to the teacher, hold a pencil and wipe their own bottoms. A year or two in even a low-achieving school will not dent your son's Oxbridge chances.

If after a decent length of time you really decide that you're not happy with the school he's in and no place comes up in any other acceptable school (unlikely) then you can go for the private or house move options. Don't believe what you hear about private schools having no places later on -- that's true of a tiny minority of fashionable schools, but even there places will come up.

Honestly, don't panic.

go private - get in with the private school head, and work on helping the private school provide public benefit to the local community - sharing facilities, knowledge etc

According to teacher friends, OFSTED have moved the goalposts and are downgrading schools that have previously done very well, and also the teaching. IMO OFSTED are only an indication of how good the school would be for our dc.

I'm with AgonyBeetle - there is a reasonable chance of you getting a place at good school if you wait. And why is moving seriously next to good school not an option - expensive yes, but cheaper than private?

2 or 7

DEFINITELY NOT 3!!

Wot AgonyBeetle said.

Plus I'm still sticking up for Rubbish School. I am not trying to sacrifice your child's education on the altar of your beliefs. But we went with a bog-standard school despite much trepidation and v similar angst to you, and it is fine. Boy has friends from all backgrounds, is making good progress, and there are enough of "us" (oh god, but you know what I mean) sticking with what seems on the outside to be an unpromising institution (although OFSTED good, admittedly, up from satisfactory when we started).

If they are under special measures, it often means a new head, lots of outside mentoring from edu authority and new money. It can mean a school is turned inside out, for the better.

Save your money for private secondary, if you are committed to Hney.

If you don't want to move, go private. You won't regret it. But if you go state, you just might. (We went state, btw, but in a very different area and not in London - I'm not a "private at all costs" person.)

I would either go private or move.

We went private when we were not able to get into our nearest state school.

We moved on top of fab state primary and secondary in N London but Dear God did we pay through the hooter.

Have you checked that the Catholic school takes a certain amount of non Catholics each year. Obviously if its not a good school that won't help you but it might be worth looking at.

I'd go & look at crap-but-safe-with-emergency-new-head school.

A fantastic new Head can turn things round very quickly. Also, Ofsted aren't infallible.

Check it out for yourself before dismissing, honestly.

Ok Ravenak - am already going to see crap school. what I'd love is to find out if other people 'like us' ( love the phrase, you know what I mean..)are going down the same route. Then we can club together and work to help the school. How will I know though? and how much work is it to help a school? I'm working a lot as it is.

Valhalla - how did you know? Thank God I'm lucky to have enough money to consider private.

Now, I need a riposte the bleeding heart liberal dad up the road lucky enough to get his kid into the good school three years ago who has been making feel bad for even considering private!

I wouldn't completely write off the Catholic School. I would NOT lie, but contact the school, find out their intake policy, ask what percentage of non Catholics they have. I say this from experience. I had 4 local schools to consider, one I definitely did not want my child to attend, 1 that was my back up as it was one of the 2 schools we were in catchment for, a school which has really turned around recently but quite a walk away and a Catholic School. We are not Catholic but decided to visit it and spoke to others. We were honest with them, ds1 had been christened C of E and we had no plans to change faith, but due to the Baptism and the distance from school and a letter froma minister of a church we attend a tots group at, ds1 got a place there.

lazylula is right. My close friend got her DD a place at a catholic primary as a result of applying for a non catholic place. Depending on the area the intakes vary but it's worth a try. Your DS would still be subject to the faith education which is a consideration for you. Depends on the school however as to how much activity there is.

I've checked my 'bible' - the LA prospectus of schools entries for last year and both the catholic and Cof E school nearby have 0 entrants on distance. The entries re all either faith based or sibling.

I could look at the C of E school - are Anglican vicars a bit more lax than the Catholics? or is it too late to get a vicar to sign something if I start turning up. Mind you, the hypocrisy of that is equally crap...

ie taking place from someone who really believes...

My riposte to bleeding heart liberal ass dad up the road would be this:

When it's YOUR child and YOUR money, you can comment. Until then, fuck off... and when you get there, fuck off some more."

Sorry, I save clever responses and sarcasm for the intelligent. BHL dad doesn't merit the effort. :o

"what I'd love is to find out if other people 'like us' ( love the phrase, you know what I mean..)are going down the same route."

Yep, we are. We live in south London but the situation is very similar in our area. Have had to cross the rubicon and sign up for private prep. It's a stretch, but the only alternative is moving and decided that would be even more expensive and less effective (still not guaranteed to get a place at the school you want, even if you live v close).

Hope you come to a decision that satisfies you and don't beat yourself up too much just cos of what you once thought about others. You were in a different situation then. And if anyone disdains you in a similar way, well, you know now - one day they may have to change their point of view...

thanks everyone.

what a terrible situation this is - I'm pleased I've got options but I'm sickened for those that don't...

Personally I would move or go private.

Children get one shot at education and they are in school a buggary long time each day.

Over the years I have refused to stick out any job that was not a.interesting and b. conducted in a pleasant and conducive environment.

I would not expect any less for my children.

Sending your children to a school that you already feel is not a good place to be is no way to proceed.

And as for helping to make it better, well I hear this all the time and all I can say is I volunteer in one local school nd am a governor in another. Change is extraordinarily hard to achieve...because often it's the parents who you are battling with.

thanks Litchick - its good to hear form someone who has been there

I went to a shocking primary school- of my 42 strong class 28 have had stints in jail, 3 were manslaughter charges.
But! Those of us with parents who could be arsed all do really well tbh- weirdly we all moved to the same city and the worst I've ever had was a parking ticket.
I did betterthan dp in all my exams etc even though he went to a catholic school that had ten in each class.

Not in london, (birmingham) but just about to move house which means a school move. The new area has about 5 primary schools all 'good' or 'outstanding' according to Ofsted- do you think I can get a place in any? can i hell.
There is another school in the area which was given 'notice to improve' last july. Lots of friends who are fortunate to have kids in the good/outstanding schools are keen to share stories of horror about this school that is our only option....

.... we went to have a look around today and I was literally blown away by the head/teachers and kids. The new headmistress has completely changed the school and I wouldnt be at all surprised if it got 'good/outstanding' in its next ofsted report.
I have filled in the forms to get two places there for my kids asap. An added bonus is that for DS1 the class size is just 17 pupils and for ds2 just 20 pupils- because no one wants to send their kids there.

I predict that in a couple of years this school will be oversubscribed.

Go and visit, ask questions (if you look in 'primary education' i started a thread about a school with 'notice to improve' lots of good pointers and questions on there to ask)

good luck

Is the rubbish school you are talking about O? If it is, I know a few parents who send their kids there and the kids are happy!

You don't want him to go to the Catholic school by the sound of it.

Private primary - nah, waste of money

I'd move to Newham. It's a great area, similar in many ways to Hackney, although maybe not quite as trendy - and some of the schools are fantastic! Check the OFSTED on them and then move to the right area. You'll get a nice house. Or move within Hackney near the 'nice' school.

Don't move 'out' of London yet. Keep your principles on the ethnic and social mixes he will be exposed to if you stay in East London.

Can you guess where I live? Ha ha ha!!!

If your DS starts in Sept 11 & you are thinking about moving house then you need to get your skates on. If you move after the applications deadline (Some time in Jan 11? - my LA is then but they may not all be the same) you will be classed as a "late application" at your new address & will be allocated a place based on what is left after the "on time" applications have been processed - therefore highly likely that the only schools with places left will be the ones miles away and/or no one wants... LAs will only let you apply with your new address when either (depending which "rule" yours uses) you have moved in or exhanged contracts/signed rental agreement.

"I could look at the C of E school - are Anglican vicars a bit more lax than the Catholics? or is it too late to get a vicar to sign something if I start turning up" IME highly unlikely this would work either as you would have needed to be a regular attender at church services for x months/years in the period running up to September 2010, no point starting to turn up now.

Sorry, but it sounds like the best options are move damn quick or go private...