CB - alternative solutions?

[CardyMow]

If cutting CB in the way that has been outlined is unfair, how else could/ should the government save money on this benefit?

I ask this because a columnist in the Daily Fail (I ^know!) said that he would rather they stopped CB for dc at the age of 16yo, regardless of whether they are still in education or not.

I always thought that the reason CB was paid to 19 was because, if, like our family, you are caught in a cycle of very low wages (£16Kfor a FT job), the only way out is more education. If you take away CB for poor people, they will also lose their TC's, and theefore have a dc in FT education that they get NO income for, and are therefore unable to feed or clothe them. It was done because otherwise, these DC would HAVE to go out to work FT, just to have money to eat, thus them also being stuck forever in a very low paid job, with no chance of bettering themselves.

Surely education is the way OUT of the benefits trap? But many more dc will be forced to leave school at 16 to work in min wage jobs if their parents cannot feed them while they gain better qualifications.

It would make any form of further education the preserve of the rich, surely that is a step too far back in time?

While I agree that the way of administering this CB cut needs to be fairer and based on household income rather than one earners tax bracket, surely if minimum wage is £5.85 p/h, then a lot of the country earn barely more than £12,000pa for a FT job, so wherever you are, whatever you are doing, £42K is a HUGE income...Why shouldn't CB be cut for anyone with a household income of £34K pa? My family certainly wouldn't need CB if we had an income of £34Kpa.

There is a lot of talk about middle class earners 'Bearing the Brunt'
My MCE husband worked his way through University.Works all hours, is on call even on holiday (yes abroad)and pays a high tax rate.Now to insult us more take our CB.
'Bear the Brunt' have been for years!

Don't have kids if you can't afford them. CB is a benefit and, yes it is nice to have, but no-one should expect or rely on it.

Not sure I understand how a couple on 80,000 between them still get it though. Puzzling, but I think there's worse to come and we should only fight the battles which affect us directly. Life's too short to be in a permenant state of outrage!

You may well have done that. ANd over the 3 years since, I have tried to. Applying for over 200 jobs is trying, NO?

If you knew there was a posibility of me having goodness knows how many days off sick, at very short notice, or being rushed to hospital halfway through a shift...would YOU employ me, Obnoxio?

If I was running a business, advertised a job, and 450 people applied for it, 449 of whom were fit and healthy, ONE of whom was likely to take a LOT of time off sick due to their disability, I wouldn't employ me, it just wouldn't be good busines sense when faced with fit healthy applicants.

And anyway, it's not as if we are claiming JSA and refusing to work...DP works very hard, FT, and earns £16K pa. So we need some state assistance in the form of TC's to keep a roof over our heads. DP still pays taxes, just as you do. Jeez, would you rather DP and I and our dc were sent to the workhouse? I'm starting to think I've landed in a victorian time-warp...

I feel that, unless you know 'what shoes I'm walking in', it's best not to be both presumptious and dismissive BPT. And no, I have not been held upside down etc. I have been forced, yes forced, under duress of imprisonment, to pay my taxes!

As I said in my first post, you breed them, you feed them! I want nothing at all to do with your children. I don't want contact, pictures, letters or to see them run in front of me at the supermarket being little shits. In return, all I ask if that you ask nothing of me. It's a very fucking simple contract, even for an Untermensch like youself to understand!

Obnoxia doesn't have children?? Obnoxia uses a lot of nasty language and is very aggressive, I am guessing he is a male and I know he is a fascist bully from reading his posts.

Obnoxio could avoid paying taxes, if he dug himself a hole and jumped in, I'll even lend him a spade.

And as for calling me largearse...well, I do think you should get a grip. I'm not large, just opinionated about certain things. I can see that while the changes in CB do not directly affect MY family, the way they are going to administer it is patently unfair, as it will penalise single mothers on a high wage, couples with one high wage earner, yet it will not affect a couple with two fairly high wage earners. Unfair in the extreme.

You seem to be totally unable to see that other people do not live the same life as you, and may be affected diferently. I at least am able to consider that, yes, someone on £44K Might miss their CB, even if to me, an income of £44K would be a pipe dream. COnsidering that is almost 3 times DP's income. FOr a physical FT job.

wow obnoxio you really are a charmless twat aren't you?

And don't you think that DP also has to pay his taxes?? OR do the working poor somehow become exempt from that. . That's funy, I'm sure DP Pays 20% of his income (after his personal alowance) in tax.

I'll think you'll find that it is MY spade. Paid for out of my taxes.

Fascist. The first (and last) cry of those who, losing an argument, resort to. The middle class equivilent of calling somone a racist. I'm minded of the closing scene of Invasion of the Body Snatchers, with any number of candidates to play Donald Sutherland.

I'll let your bile fester in the sunshine of my approval, as I regard it from the vantage point of the moral high ground.

Loudlass almost everyone gets where you are coming from. I am also one of the working poor, I run a small business that rather than pay me, robs me ! the economic situation being what it is. I have two DC and a lovely DH who works his socks off for £22K.

I am aghast at the unfairness of this CB idea. Whilst it won't effect me, I wonder what sort of school boy could think up such tosh.

Will it not force mothers into the workforce against their will. Will it not detter men from striving to better themselves to look after their famillies. The worlds gone mad and to top it off

obnoxio you have no high ground, all you have done is come on here and spit out some vitriolic bile.
Its attitudes like yours that cause the breakdown in our society. never underestimate when you may need the help of others, with an attitude like yours there will be no-one willing to help you out when you need it most.

I see you aren't responding to the fact that my DP also has to pay his taxes...I haven't cried facist, I just cannot understand why you are seemingly unable to get (what I assume is) your well educated head around the fact that there are very poor people out there in the real world, that work bloody hard for a pittance, and YES they are receiving some state help, they are still making a worthwhile contribution through paying their taxes. I'm hardly Middle Class when we are on an income of £16k, am I?

Or are you the only person in the country that has to pay their taxes Obnoxio? DO your taxes and your taxes alone keep the whole welfare state running? Your taxes also pays for the doctor that tends to you when you have been in a car crash, or the policeman that investigates a burglary when you have been broken into.

Obnoxio I am surprised you can see any ground with your head stuck up your arse.

Loudlass maybe we could send back our tax credit so that Obnoxio need not feel he is keeping us. Then maybe stop paying our taxes, just as he would like to not pay tax, we could also stop paying taxes.

FOR OBNOXIO's benefit I make the point that DH pays more in PAYE then we receieve in tax credit. So yeh, lets all not pay taxes

BPT. Thanks very much for that non sequitur: now please fuck off and let someone with a bit of sense post.

I have no issues is paying my taxes, and even if I did, I would still have to pay them. What I take umbrage to, and I imagine many others in my situation, is having to pay for children which are not mine. All I ask if that you ensure that you can afford to bring up a child before having one. I do not have a expensive car: because I cannot afford one; I do not have a large house, because I cannot afford one; I do not have a massive wine collection..etc. You know where I'm coming from here.

Please do not think me up my own arse. I just want to be left alone and not have my pocket picked to pay for some one elses problems. I accept fully that employment may be an issue for you, and take on board your claims to be actively seeking work. But to have children KNOWING you would have problems bringing them up, and them complaining about it afterwards and expecting others to help, is a bit fucking rich.

I work full time, pay 40% tax and have 3 childremn, one at school and 2 in nursery. I pay £15k a year in childcare costs at the moment so the CB comes in very useful. I don't mind the idea of losing the CB when they are all in full time schooling but I disagree with the idea that all higher rate tax payers can afford to lose this CB. I am considering going part time as I would be financially on the same footing as I am now and the exchequer will lose 3 fold, one as I would benefit from child benefit, 2 as I may get tax credits and 3 I would pay less tax. Bonkers.

Obnoxio's parents were obviously very wealthy, how else could they have paid for the devils spawn I'm asuming it was hatched because its attitude is most inhumane.

Well, thats added lots to this discussion. Well done TBP. Pray tell, what is your encore?