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AIBU?

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Original poster

CB - alternative solutions?

456 replies

CardyMow · 05/10/2010 11:08

If cutting CB in the way that has been outlined is unfair, how else could/ should the government save money on this benefit?

I ask this because a columnist in the Daily Fail (I ^know!) said that he would rather they stopped CB for dc at the age of 16yo, regardless of whether they are still in education or not.

I always thought that the reason CB was paid to 19 was because, if, like our family, you are caught in a cycle of very low wages (£16Kfor a FT job), the only way out is more education. If you take away CB for poor people, they will also lose their TC's, and theefore have a dc in FT education that they get NO income for, and are therefore unable to feed or clothe them. It was done because otherwise, these DC would HAVE to go out to work FT, just to have money to eat, thus them also being stuck forever in a very low paid job, with no chance of bettering themselves.

Surely education is the way OUT of the benefits trap? But many more dc will be forced to leave school at 16 to work in min wage jobs if their parents cannot feed them while they gain better qualifications.

It would make any form of further education the preserve of the rich, surely that is a step too far back in time?

While I agree that the way of administering this CB cut needs to be fairer and based on household income rather than one earners tax bracket, surely if minimum wage is £5.85 p/h, then a lot of the country earn barely more than £12,000pa for a FT job, so wherever you are, whatever you are doing, £42K is a HUGE income...Why shouldn't CB be cut for anyone with a household income of £34K pa? My family certainly wouldn't need CB if we had an income of £34Kpa.

OP posts:
MsSparkle · 05/10/2010 16:19

I agree that CB should not be paid for 16+. I know so many people who's child went on to further education but dropped out soon after and yet the parent carried on claiming CB until the child was 19!

MsSparkle · 05/10/2010 16:23

I think they could also do higher fines for crimes commited. Someone who is driving around with no licence/insurance etc getting a £50 fine and a slap on the wristAngry I don't think so! Should be much higher. Hit them where it hurts, the pockets!

newwave · 05/10/2010 16:36

There will always be anomolies, what about the household with two wage earners at £40K PLUS to live at home kids who contribute £900 a month to the pot.

One thing I do notice is that some people seem to want GB to end af a wage that is a bit higher than there own. Loudlass suggested around £30K, £30k is a shit salary and £43K is hardly great for London and the South East.

newwave · 05/10/2010 16:36

That should be "two" live at home kids

Original poster
CardyMow · 05/10/2010 16:51

Sorry, newwave, but I live in an expensive part of the South East, and I consider £34K and above a VERY decent wage. DP and I count ourselves as lucky, as he earns £16K pa. A lot of our friends work just as hard, FT, and only get £12K for a FT job, on minimum wage. It's not a 'litle bit' above our income, it's over double our income. I clas that as lot. Wouldn't you class someone on double your income being well off?

MsSparkle...MY dc will not be able to sit A-levels if they abolish CB for over 16's, as I would get no CB and no CTC for them, so they would have to go out to work in a shitty minimum wage job like us, and never get anything more than min wage through lack of education. They'd have to go to FT work, to EAT.

Why shouldn't dc born into 'poor' families be able to educate themselves out of poverty? Why should only richer peoples dc be able to sit A-levels?

OP posts:
newwave · 05/10/2010 16:58

I also live in the south east very close to London.

If your OH woks for £16k and you have friends on £12k all I can say is WTF are you allowing yourselves to be exploited for, get a proper job.

I quit a job with a £21K slary plus slaes commision of about £12k a year over 6 years ago because i thought it was crap

hairytriangle · 05/10/2010 17:05

it would be fairer to cut it for high earning households rather than where there is an individual high earner.

I think it's totally fair to cut it for high earners who at the end of the day, on household income don't actually need it, compared to people in poverty.

whyamibothering · 05/10/2010 17:08

Don't be so nasty, newwave. Isn't it so easy to sit there at the computer and be on your high horse. I do hope you don't fall off it.

Plenty of people work full time for wages between 12 and 16K, and are grateful for the opportunity. How dare you tell people to get a proper job and also swear. How rude.

Fact of the matter is some jobs pay better than others and all need to be done.

Good for you, you gave up a £21K salary over six years ago.... Not everyone can. Have you heard of cutbacks, redundancies, etc. These days people are lucky to get a reply from an application.

Your post makes me very, very angry

Mumcentreplus · 05/10/2010 17:15

I'm sorry but I would not be 'grateful' to work for 12k a year..

stoatie · 05/10/2010 17:15

I have three children - eldest over 16 but in full time education. ~Often children at college have increased costs as opposed to secondary school. We don't qualify for EMA (fair enough). In order to get to college she has round trip (time wise) of over 3 hours using train, so most days she is out of the house from 7am til 7 pm. she has a part time job. The transport costs for college alone are over £1500, then because she is studying musical theatre she has dance clothing, etc on top of stationery needs. Child benefit (and her wage) help some way with the costs

newwave · 05/10/2010 17:18

"Plenty of people work full time for wages between 12 and 16K, and are grateful for the opportunity"

Then they are deluded to be gratful for £12k a year, this is explotation not a living wage and hence is not a proper job paying a proper salary.

I quit the job because I first made the effort to find a better paying job, this route is open to all although it is going to be harder now.

As for swearing, how is crap swearing.

As for your anger, so what, I hope it gives you heartburn.

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 05/10/2010 17:18

That hits the poor more than the rich though

Raise the 40% tax band and lower the 50% band to £75K

Original poster
CardyMow · 05/10/2010 17:21

We ARE grateful for DP's wage of £16K PA. We left school to go to work in low paid jobs at 16yo. Because back then, CB wasn't paid past 16yo. With barely a handful of GCSE level qualifications, what job paying more do you propose we get? SUrely we should be thanful of having a job at all? The alternative round here for us is to be on the dole. Providing the food for hospital patients IS a 'proper' job. And that ays £16K pa. SOMEONE has to do it...The only other jobs DP can find are for even less money, £12K, thus being £4K pa less than he earns...

OP posts:
Original poster
CardyMow · 05/10/2010 17:25

And I do concur that YES £16K is not a liveable wage, if only minimum wage was abolished and we got competitive market forces for basic jobs again...DP earnt more doing jobs at the same level 17 yrs ago than he does now...Tell Big business fat cats earning £150K+ pa to pay their staff a decent wage then, and to take less themselves instead...I don't see that one going down well...

OP posts:
usualsuspect · 05/10/2010 17:28

So if no one did the lower paid jobs New Wave..who would serve you in the supermarket,look after your old parents in the care home,make your lunch time sandwich in the posh coffee shops? empty your dustbin?

My dp was made redundant at 55 ..not so easy to get a proper jobjob then is it

To the op my ds could not go to college with out his ema and child benefit ..his bus fare alone is £15 quid a week ..yes hes looking for a job ,but so is everybody else

whyamibothering · 05/10/2010 17:34

Can't please people, Loudlass - I wouldn't bother trying.

Obviously some people would prefer you to sit around on your backside doing nothing profitable than admire you for taking on jobs they deem themselves too high and mighty for.

And I stick by 'grateful' Grateful for the opportunity. It's better than mentally declining on the dole and it's good to be a role model for the youngsters and set the example that yes, even though others deride you, you hold your head up and are pleased to have a job.

I dont understand why some people have to be condescending, patronising or downright rude to others who happen to earn less, seriously I don't. Life is not fair, and not equal and it's about time everyone realised that.

GMajor7 · 05/10/2010 17:40

Shock @ newwave

I was really hoping these sorts of views didn't exist

DomesticG0ddess · 05/10/2010 17:58

Loudlass, I used to earn about £20 a week, which is the same as CB for the first child, by working at WHSmiths whilst I was doing my A levels. This was nearly 18 years ago so I am sure it is possible today. I worked one day in the week after school 4-6, and all day Saturday. My parents were (and still are) very poor. But I worked part time from aged 12!

DomesticG0ddess · 05/10/2010 17:59

My point is, it would seem a shame that, as you say:

"MY dc will not be able to sit A-levels if they abolish CB for over 16's, as I would get no CB and no CTC for them, so they would have to go out to work in a shitty minimum wage job like us, and never get anything more than min wage through lack of education. They'd have to go to FT work, to EAT."

for the sake of £20 a week, which they can earn through a part time job?

newwave · 05/10/2010 18:03

Major, What views?. The one that it is wrong to exploit people.

UsualSuspect, The people you mention should be paid a living wage not exploited.

Close the tax loopholes, come down as hard on tax avoiders as benefit cheats, tax non domiciles, stop paying for the bloody royal family (biggest welfare ponces in the land). Tax unearned income as high as earned income.
If a company moves production from the UK to another (cheap wage) country then make them pay back all the start up tax breaks. Lots of way to raise money.

Is it right that I sold £7.5K of shares last year at a profit of £3.2K without tax being paid on the profit, I had bought the shares 36 months ago. (company scheme)

Original poster
CardyMow · 05/10/2010 18:14

There ARE no PT jobs like that. Not here anyway, PT is classed as either 12 hrs per week, during the day when they would be at college, OR 22.5 hrs a week, taken by parents, not dc.

OP posts:
Original poster
CardyMow · 05/10/2010 18:19

ANd it wouldn't just be £20 a week we would lose. We would also lose the CTC for DD if we were no longer in receipt of CB for her, as the two things are linked. NOw we get £144 a week CTC for 3 dc, so surely losing a third of that is quite a large chunk of money that DD would NOT be able to make u in a PT job. Confused at how you can't see that we woukd be losing at least £60 a week. I cant earn much more than that! Minimum wage is waht for 16yo's? Something ridiculous like £3.50 an hour? How many hours would she have to work to earn £60-odd pounds?

OP posts:
DomesticG0ddess · 05/10/2010 18:42

You're right, £60 is a very different amount if they are studying FT. Are there not Saturday jobs like there used to be then? Not being arsey, just genuinely curious.

Original poster
CardyMow · 05/10/2010 18:44

Nope, not round here anyway. Haven't seen youngsters working in shops for about 3 yrs. The shops get their PT workers doing 22.5hrs/wk to work one weekend day each, thus cutting out the need for a 'saturday job'.

OP posts:
Talker2010 · 05/10/2010 18:44

Jut get rid of CB altogether

There should be no need for it in an appropriately structures benefits system