to feel that my 8 year old should be able to control her temper?

[GreatWhale]

I am going out of my mind with my 8 year olds temper tantrums which are badly affecting family life. She has always been somtwhat challenging but in the last few months it has been getting worse and worse. GP reckons she is getting an early puberty but I am at the end of the line with my coping mechanisms. I don't get angry with her, I remain patient and clearly tell her that if she continues to treat me in an unkind way she will not go to the party, get a guinea pig etc. Despite that I know only to threaten things I will see through she still persists.

Tonight I came in from work and was straight in to a violent triade over dinner - fine I siad - don't finish it but then don't tell me your hungerry later. The tirade continued so I said - ok keep this up and no Brownies - etc etc. In the end she was so intense I just had to get out of the house ( don't worry - Gran was still around - I would never leave her alone).

I calmed down and went back just to have to continually try to be patient and reasonable to a f**king brat I just wanted to punch the living day lights out of!

It has now reached the point where I feel like I am in an abusive relationship. When she is calm she is so sorry and very tactile but the moment I deny her something - however small - off we go again. It is ruining my relationship with my husband. My 5 year old son - usually wonderfully behaved when she is kicking off - is mimicing her behaviour when he is cross about something.

I really fear for my own sanity when she is at full blast screeching like a banshee. Tonight I ended up feotal on the kitchen floor while she raged. I am an outwrdly confident, aseertive, capable wonam. how can I let this little brat get to me.

Yikes. Sounds a real handful!

Why do you feel its affecting your relationship with DH ?

Is Gran staying with you permanently ?

Sounds very much like my 7yr old DD1.
I try and stay calm but she just goes on and on and on and i end up loosing it. The temptation just to give her a quick slap to snap her out of it is high but i don't smack her.

Last week she kicked off after school because i said i wasn't buying their weekly sweets that day because i had 4 extra children with me and couldn't buy for them all. But i did tell her that they could have a bigger treat the next day because her Brother would be home from his school residential. No, that wasn't good enough for her!

She frightens DD2 when she screams. It is ear piercingly loud.

I don't know how to deal with her anymore! Although taking things away does eventually stop her.

Thankfully Gran not permanent resident - just after school on mons - she had never seen her like this before.

DH is a lovely man but just doesn't ever approach her in a consisten manner - either over the top or just lets things go which I feel we need to clamp down on. At the end of the day I am somehtimes so mentally drained by her I just have no time/inclination to do anything,

You ended up on the floor in a foetal position?
Have you any idea how frightening that would be for her?

You need help, outside help, to deal with this as this will damage her as well as driving you crazy.

I have extremely challenging dd so I truly sympathise, but I always show her I am in charge and that she is safe.

You sound utterly exhausted.

I think you could consider getting some help via GP.

I don't know if that sounds a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut; but sounds like there may be several factors at play here.

Thanks proudnglad - i know I need help - why do you think I'm posting here? I'm not bragging about it!!!!!!!

Yeah PNG, thats my favourite attack strategy:

The Foetal Position

My 8yr old is quite evil at times..contenious,wilful,rude and she can also be extremely loving,funny ans sweet ahe is finding her feet in the world.. but ultimately she is frickin 8YRS OLD!!..send her to her room!!..you have to be strong..lying on the floor is not the way to go..toughen up lady!..when she starts instantly dis-engage and tell her her behaviour is unacceptable!!do not facilitate her actions..YOU are her MOTHER!! and you need to speak to your DH and tell him lovely is not working for you or your daughter..

I think there really are a lot of things going on from what you have described.

1. Try with some professional help to work out what it is that is going on.

1. Only then try to figure out what to do.

1. This book is good.

Hope things get better.:)

I feel like you at the moment, My DS and DD seem to fly into violent rages, they either copy one another or they are just wired that way. Problem is they are 2 and 3. I have no idea what you should do, but Im hanging around for all the tips as i think im going to need it too.

Has she always been a bit like this, or is it a recent thing? Really hope things get better for you.

i have an 8yr old son who is very much the same its almost like jekyl and hyde one minet lovley the next a completly different child throwing stuff hitting kicking ect and usually over somthing very small i.e not allowed a biscuit,and if only sending him to his room was that easy!(especially with a whole set of stairs to try and get him up). He gets very angry very quickly but if i get angry with him it escaltes to another level,so as hard as this might sound i stay as perfectly calm as possible tell him that his behaviour is not acceptable and that he needs to calm down.thats it I say no more on the matter,then if I can I will take him somwhere quiet untill hes finished and calmed down then he can go back to playing or whatever he was doing but if he starts again(which he usually does)I do exacly the same untill he has stopped.I have found over the years this is the only way of dealing with him and staying in controll.might not work for everyone but works for me.

p.s the tantrums have gone from several times a day to a couple of times a week. hope you find and awnser that works for you.

Get her a punch bag. Every time she kicks up - point to the punchbag and tell her to get on with it. Film her in one of her rages - she may be unaware of what she's up to.

And talk to a child / family therapist.

She will need to manage her anger if she is to have a good life.

You need to reengage with her when she's in her rage, not play a victim. You must get up off the floor.

Is there a history of mental illness in the family? Could she see an endocrinologist and have her hormones tested. TBH it sounds to me as if she's in dire need of guidance from a professional, as are you all.

good luck.

Thanks for all the useful comments. Some good stuff here - seriously considering the punch bag - might benefit myself!!

Morning has dawned and I have the sweetest, reasonable happy to behave girl in the house. Tyring not to guilt trip her - but we have had a chat. Still feel I am walking on eggshells though.

School run beckons and then some time to get my head straight on all this.

She sounds a lot like 6 yr old dd and I too have been reduced to a gibbering wreck.

I am currently trying a different strategy from the taking away/send to room line I have always adopted.

Instead of punishing her bad behaviour, I am rewarding her good behaviour. There are 5 flash points in our day which makes 35 a week. If she gets through 28 of them (ie 80%) in a reasonable manner, she gets a reward at the end of the week. When her behaviour is building up to something unpleasant, she gets one warning to stop. I can't claim 100% efficacy but it has certainly made her think about her behaviour more.

I second the send her to a room by herself to calm down rather than you leaving. It sends out the better message that you're in control of things. (even if you then want to curl up while she's out of the room) try not to let her see you "lose it"

Teach her how to control her anger, during the times she is calm - (ask your GP or Google "anger management techniques" for ideas for her to try) and practise this with her. Try to make it fun.

In her calm stages, spell out what you expect from her - break this down into achievable things to start with , one bad behaviour at a time - but always explain the ultimate goal. Really spell out what this means in terms of her actions and what you expect her to change. Ignore (hard I know - but be strong) all of the other behaviour and focus on the one thing you want her to change this week. Make a chart so you can both focus on her progress.

When she does stop this one bad behaviour (even if she still has 100 other ones!) make sure you praise it. Tell her in advance what the rewards /punishments will be for achieving ...or not achieving this goal.

Pick something utterly amazing for you both to do together as the "ultimate" prize - whatever will really tempt her - for when she has conquered all of the bad behaviours.

Just a few things that occur to me

does she drink a lot of cola, caffeine intolerance?

do the tantrums become worse before meals are due/ a few hours after she's last eaten, low blood sugar levels? (I knew an adult who was completely foul when hungry, short fuse, unreasonable, rude)

how much responsibility does she have in the home, specific jobs to do etc, does she feel too 'babied'? DH 's inconsistent approach to discipline isn't helping, dd doesn't know where she stands.

Does she do a lot of activities/clubs/sports resulting in performance pressure/overtiredness/tension?

Is she being bullied, and taking it out on others?

I agree with the punchbag, as soon as she feels a rage starting she removes herself from the situation so that she doesn't attack others.

Push for a referral to a child psychologist. A video of dd during a rage may well be helpful for them to see. They will be more successful at getting her to talk about her feelings and hopefully teach her some coping strategies. Also speak to her teachers about how she is at school and how they manage her behaviour.

First, obvious point - is there any reason for her anger? Just asking because it is common for children to act out when something is upsetting them. Is all well at her school (also, does she exhibit such anger at school? If not it suggests she can control herself when she has too!)

Second, stop threatening to remove things/treats from her. It isn't working so you need to think of something else.
If she kicks off, simply walk out and shut the door.
If she is in danger of trashing the room, you may have to intervene of course (i.e physically remove her to somewhere she can't do damage).
But if it's just yelling and screaming just walk out.
And save your breath. She won't be listening to your entreaties and reasoning.
When she has calmed down, in your best teacher voice say something like, "That was very disappointing behaviour. I have told you this behaviour must stop. I know you can learn to control your temper and I expect better of you next time."

Don't get into a long involved discussion afterwards about how anger makes you feel sad or upset (she knows that and clearly doesn't care enough for it to affect her behaviour.)

Don't promise rewards for better behaviour at this stage. If she fails, it's a cue for more tantrums. If she succeeds she may argue about the treat itself (oh yes, had that happen to me before!).

But do be on the lookout for any attempts you see her making to control herself. Say casually, "That's nice. You seemed to cope well with not being able to see that TV programme you wanted/having to eat dinner so late/whatever". (But don't overdo it! You don't want her turning into a praise junkie who only behaves when she is showered with praise and attention.)If she has a week of not losing her temper, suggest a treat like an outing/activity. Make this a surprise. Don't set up expectations!

You could say something like, "We've had a really good week, haven't we? I think we should go somewhere nice. How about XXX?"

Eight your olds are still very young but see and understand an awful lot. She will figure out what gets her the right sort of attention. It may take a few weeks (they say it takes 6 weeks to break a habit/set up a new one) and her behaviour may get worse before it gets better once she spots that the game has changed. But stay consistent and she will improve.

PS She is almost certainly tantruming partly to steal attention from her sister.

What I don't understand is why she didn't get sent away from the table when she started the tirade? If she starts on at you, she HAS to leave the room until her temper is under control. Send her to her room (but make sure her room is a calming room, and not full of toys and 'busy' things) and she doesn't come back until she is calm. If dinner (or whatever else that is going on) is finished while she is away, then too bad, she goes hungry/without. For a few weeks it will be hell on earth, but it will eventually get through to her that the only person she is hurting with her tantrums is herself.

If she won't go, at 8 years old she is still small enough to be carried into her room and deposited there!

Morning has dawned and I have the sweetest, reasonable happy to behave girl in the house

She sounds a little like your DH ?

Thanks - all wonderfully useful suggestions. Most have been tried with some degrees of success - lets hope last night was rock bottom. She is a very bright kid - really good behaviour at school. Self confidnece isn't great though - always very shy when she meets people and very reluctant to put her hand up in class. she has a lovely group of girly friends and I'm pretty sure I would pick up on, or she would tell me about any problems there.

Despite only being 8 and half there is obvious early breat development so GP reckons we are heading for puberty early. she herself says after the rages that she is frightend by it but just can't stop herself.

Sometimes she really does try to stop herself and I do praise her. Her little briother will annoy her and I see her clenching her hands and bracing to resist whacking him.

Her diet is pretty good although she won't eat much meat. She eats a good balanced diet and never has any caffiene or fizzy drinks.

She knows herself that sometimes she is in a bad mood becasue she is hungry - but this latest outburst was just after a meal. some mornings she wakes up so grumpy that we kind of make a joke about getting her downstairs to eat as quick as she can. within 4 spoonsfuls of cereal she is usually calmed down.

If she won't go, at 8 years old she is still small enough to be carried into her room and deposited there!

She weighs 32kg!!! I'm fit but not that strong to manage the stairs too! Plus - when I do try to remove her she will always flounce about and manage to hit her head, arm, leg on a doorway or bannister and then of course it is " You've hurt me!"!

The little man is at his drama group tonight so we are planning a walk together and so will try to start again the - praising good behaviour, encouranging and reassuring her.

Just a thought about what someone else said about other things bothering her: I was, frankly, dreading the summer holidays for similar reasons, but when dd was on holiday, no school, she was lovely. She relaxed and we had a great time. Back to school, guess what..?! We changing her school now as think she has been quite stressed by various things there. Not saying same in your case, but maybe worth thinking if anything else trigger.

^Morning has dawned and I have the sweetest, reasonable happy to behave girl in the house

She sounds a little like your DH ?^

To be honest she is probably more like me in temprament. Possibly dissed him a bit last night - he is really good and very supportive - but I think I am the alpha male in the house!

Sounds as though low/variable blood sugar may be a factor. Also possible query over whether sufficient protein ?

Defnitely worth a visit to GP.