to feel that my 8 year old should be able to control her temper?

[GreatWhale]

I am going out of my mind with my 8 year olds temper tantrums which are badly affecting family life. She has always been somtwhat challenging but in the last few months it has been getting worse and worse. GP reckons she is getting an early puberty but I am at the end of the line with my coping mechanisms. I don't get angry with her, I remain patient and clearly tell her that if she continues to treat me in an unkind way she will not go to the party, get a guinea pig etc. Despite that I know only to threaten things I will see through she still persists.

Tonight I came in from work and was straight in to a violent triade over dinner - fine I siad - don't finish it but then don't tell me your hungerry later. The tirade continued so I said - ok keep this up and no Brownies - etc etc. In the end she was so intense I just had to get out of the house ( don't worry - Gran was still around - I would never leave her alone).

I calmed down and went back just to have to continually try to be patient and reasonable to a f**king brat I just wanted to punch the living day lights out of!

It has now reached the point where I feel like I am in an abusive relationship. When she is calm she is so sorry and very tactile but the moment I deny her something - however small - off we go again. It is ruining my relationship with my husband. My 5 year old son - usually wonderfully behaved when she is kicking off - is mimicing her behaviour when he is cross about something.

I really fear for my own sanity when she is at full blast screeching like a banshee. Tonight I ended up feotal on the kitchen floor while she raged. I am an outwrdly confident, aseertive, capable wonam. how can I let this little brat get to me.

I don't think its school - this has been building since about May/June - probably around the time of a little bit of weight gain and the breast formation.

I do think I am just going to have to sit this one out. Me being tired too and having just come in from work all acted as a trigger last night I think.

So hormones probably involved - but I still feel she has to be told that the sort of behaviour she exhibits is not acceptable. If it is ignored I am storing up trouble for down the way.

I suspect that if you are anything like me, her defiance and rudeness triggers a real reaction in me, and we get into a power struggle immediately. What seems to work for us is to a) remove her from the situation, either by sending her out of the room to calm down (I lock the front door to make sure she can't get out and then let her settle wherever she chooses, but away from us as we are upset by the behaviour) or by physically removing her. I would pick my 7 year old up and 'help' her on her way out of the room or to her bedroom to calm down and b) deal with the misdemeanour later on when the temper tantrum is over. Otherwise, you feel like you are letting it go, but equally you can't reason with a small child who is not reasonable! So, discuss the problem, and the punishment later when she's calm, and give her a chance to earn it back (e.g. by staying calm when provoked etc). Plus rewarding good behaviour goes without saying.

Also: try to see her as a loving and lovely child who has the odd bad moment, rather than the other way round. I know that's not how you feel right now, and that's hard, but try to approach every day with the attitude that she's pretty good most of the time, and these are outbursts to manage rather than that she's a bit of a brat.

I also agree with everyone who says look after yourself. If you are centred and calm (I do relaxation tapes to help this but it is hard) it's so much easier to be firm and calm with her. Once you get to the distressed state, you are upset and so is she, and it all escalates. But don't beat yourself up, I cried the other day as my daughter was just awful (in front of her, very rare for me), you can't be a perfect parent all the time.

Cried myself a few weeks ago and it was like magic - she melted mid tantrum - "Whats wrong mumm?". If I was manipulative I could do that every time but feel that would not be addressing the problem.

hi my eight year old has always been head strong,but shes my youngest so think its easier to deal with.I think we often expect better and more mature behaviour from our older children.I know my husband would think this was a load of nonsence;but when she was a baby i read she was a chinese sign of the horse,and that she would be difficult to tame.I think the other side to this is that she loves life and running around doing physical stuff,and is a very passionate child.Maybe she feels left out because of her younger sibling;my 8 year old needs a lot of hugs,but so do my other children,and because she is quite determined about making her presence known,i often have to stop and make myself give attention to my other children.

Reading your last message, I'd second not letting her get away with anything, but I would pick my moments for dealing with it i.e. telling her not to be rude in the middle of a tantrum won't work, but talking about how unpleasant rudeness is, and what sanctions will be applied afterwards means you get to be heard.

I'd also encourage her to evaluate her own behaviour, she's probably feeling a bit puzzled as to why she's not the same right now too, and to come up with suggestions to manage her anger; so when she does get into a tussle, but is able to walk away/hit that pillow/write about it/goes in another room to say rude words then you can praise her.

lovelymummy - i like the idea of the Chinese horoscopes, but in that case wouldn't all babies born in 2002 have this problem, and clearly they do not.

FWIW my DD is a 2004 monkey and is quite typical of that, but I don't allow her to kick off - she'll have a much better life if she learns how to act when she's angry.

We try and get her to name the feeling - to say "I feel angry", or to say "the feeling I have is anger" and to own it.

Then she can jump on her angry mat and dance and shout it away, without acting out. And then when she's calmer, deal with the cause of the anger.

Her jumping around on her mat now lasts a few seconds, before she could keep going for a few minutes, now she knows that the anger is just a feeling, and that it's like a cloud across the sun - doesn't last forever and is just one of the emotions.

i like the idea of the Chinese horoscopes, but in that case wouldn't all babies born in 2002 have this problem

I think horoscopes are complete nonsense zazen; but unfortunately my 60-year cycle Chinese horoscope is virtually spot-on and better than the other 59. :(

Chance is a funny animal.

Re my post the other night, I was making a serious point.

It would be very unsettling for a child to see their mother like that - yes you are on here asking for help and I my advice was get professional help in RL. And, I said, I sympathise.

I grew up with a mother who struggled to cope and it was extremely frightening to see her crying into her dinner, lying on the floor, losing it with us (this however was on a regular basis).

I don't get what the is about Cumfy or your comment about your favourite form of attack?

There is room for all sorts of honest responses on here, right?

PnG
You ended up on the floor in a foetal position?
Have you any idea how frightening that would be for her?

My interpretation was that you were giving the impression that you were more concerned about the effect this would have on the child rather than the apparently, more immediate concern of the inner turmoil of OP.

You almost made it sound as though this was an intentional act that the poster should clearly refrain from.

Hence my comment and .

There is room for all sorts of honest responses on here, right?

Agreed:)

No, no I didn't mean it was intentional, clearly OP is really struggling.

As for 'more concerned about the effect on the child' - yes I probably am more concerned about her daughter for reasons I gave above.

But that doesn't mean I'm not sympathetic with Greatwhale (hope you are having a better day GW if you are around).

Hi all.

I am having a much better week thanks to all the comments. Whilst not keen on all the ideas - sorry horoscopes not my cup of tea - the fact that people were listening to me and concerned was of fantastic benefit.

I think the true response to the question I asked " Is it unreasonable to expect my 8 year old to be able to control her temper?" Yes - in some cases it probably is unreasonable. She's 8 years old and getting the first hit of hormones in the system. Her anger disturbs her too.

It is hard to tell what is lippy behaviour that needs to be curbed and what really is out of her control. When her tantrums meet my tiredness of a long day at work there will be flashpoints.

Gosh, isn't the cold light of day amazing in terms of being able to put some perspective on events.

PS: On horoscopes - I read an uncannily accurate one for me in a magazine in the dental surgery in the week. Captured my situation to a t and had really good guinace too - it was dated March 2008!!

Something you said about the cereal in the morning really rang a few bells with me!

My dp is hypoglycenmic (sp?) and his moods when his blood sugar is low are awwwful, he doesn't take it out on me, usually on a diy project/tv etc but it can be quite unnerving.
Since seeing a doctor about it it only happens very rarely now, but his mum said it explains alot about him as a child-kicking off before breakfast and dinner.
Could you ask your gp about this? This in conjunction with her hormones would make it very hard to control herself.