to think this man should have left his blooming chat to get his dog?

[Tokyotwist]

I took my 2 yr old to the park yesterday. While there a dog approached us and started running circles round dd. The thing was as big as she is. I wrapped my arms round her and tried to sheild her from the dog.

The owner was about 10 metres away having a chat. Eventually he noticed and called the dog. Didn't make any effort to come over. The dog runs back to him and we carried on.

Less than a min later it was back again. Same behaviour, same response from man.

My dd thought it was fun but I was really worried. Especially as she is the type of child who would try and pet the dog.

AIBU to think he was being irresponsible? I've been bitten twice by dogs so I'm not that keen on them. But I can't understand why he would think it was okay for his very large dog to be this close to a 2 yr old when he's not within reach himself.

I don't think YABU but wouldn't you just have been better to ask him to either put the dog on a lead or keep it away from you.

YANBU he sounds like an idiot and I would have yelled at him the 1st time...or dragged his mutt back to him....I love dogs but HATE idiots who let them cme near my toddler when I don't know the dog personally.....

You've answered your own question. The man called the dog and "The dog runs back to him".

The dog has recall. The dog came back when called. The dog WAS under control. The dog was NOT attacking either of you. Nor was he threatening to.

You are over-reacting. Perhaps understandably as you have been bitten in the past, but overreacting nonetheless.

To keep your child as safe as is humanly possible you must be as responsible as the owner concerned, who has taught his dog to return upon command. You need to teach your daughter NOT to pet a dog without the owner's express permission and appropriate adult supervision. Who would have got the blame had your child grabbed the dog a bit too hard as he passed and got bitten as a result?

Oh, and by the way, the dog is not a "thing". No more than your child is.

Val, dog owner, independent network dog rescuer, hands-on dog rescue volunteer, dog fosterer - with 2 DDs who have been raised with dogs from day one and who are also hands-on dog rescue volunteers.

brace yourself for the millions who know that their dog would never hurt anyone/ own a particular breed that means it needs to bounce at people etc etc.

It's not on because people should be allowed to walk without large animals in their faces. When I walk my large dog and put him on the lead when I see others (out of politeness, he is ultra-obedient) I am very pissed off when they can't do the same and I am trying to stop their dogs humping mine and getting myself and small DD tied up in leads . I have yelled at lots of people for this and the response is always "but he wouldn't do anything". Yes, perhaps, but that's not the point.

Kreecher... Yes in hindsight I should have asked him, but I admit to being a tad scared myself and not doing what I now see should have been obvious.

Valhalla... One of the reasons why I was sheilding dd was to stop her from reaching out and touching the dog. She's two and as yet does not always listen when I tell her not to touch. I wasn't risking it.
And no he didn't have control. It came back when he called but then was back again within a few mins. He made no attempt to come over or hold on to the dog when it returned to him.

Next time use your big voice and say very loudly and clearly
'Would you mind keeping your dog under better control please?'
It embarrasses the owner into realising that perhaps all is not well in doggieland.
Otherwise he won't think there's a problem.

Although as a teacher able to reach every corner of the playground whilst projecting (not shouting), I perhaps have an unfair advantage.

I'm a massive dog lover. However when I fell pregnant my beautiful dog went to mum's and is still there. NO dog no matter how docile or nice or friendly or child friendly should EVER be left near a child, I usually blame the parents for leaving a child with a dog but in this case it seems to be the other way around. The law states if a dog is called and comes it doesn't need to be kept on a leash (unless stated in various parks etc).

I think out of decent manners he should have either put a leash on it, or at least said, "move your child if you don't like it". TO be honest if the dog came back I'd move my child to another place, if the dog continuted to follow, I'd ask the man to restrain him and say; "my dd/ds has a terrible habit of pulling dogs hair, I wouldn't want your dog to snap and end up being put down, you know what kids are like".

I LOVE LOVE LOVE dogs, but I don't trust any animal unattended with children. It isn't just Rottweilers who snap.

Muddle, what an odd thing to say. You think that it would have been decent manners if he had said "move your child if you don't like it"? . You'd have spoken to him implying that your child was to blame and has a terrible habit, in front of her?

Interesting about the law thing though - does that mean that they test it in cases of dispute do you think? Because obviously they couldn't re-create some situations.

Very hard to judge without being there but from the sound of it I'd dispute your claim that the owner didn't have control. He called, the dog came back. Presumably he didn't tell the dog NOT to return with a sit/stay command but that isn't the same as not having control. Not having control would be issuing that command and it being ignored.

His view was probably that his dog didn't need holding when the dog returned upon command. Why would he? The dog had done no wrong - in fact, obeyed without issue - hadn't behaved aggressively and posed no threat as the owner saw it. The threat is presumed by you rather than actual.

FWIW I recall my younger German Shepherd and have him sit and stay by me when someone is approaching along a footpath, out of courtesy. He's no threat but a big dog and could knock someone over as he bounded past on a narrow path. My elder GSD is a foster dog and new to my command and so goes on a lead as I'm not as sure of his immediate response to me... YET... and my Lab does too as he doesn't like all humans. He's not aggressive but may growl if the human is too close to me.

However, I would only recall if my Sheps went near people whilst out on the fields - I wouldn't feel the need to lead them up. It's about knowing your dogs.

People will argue now that you can't possibly do that, yada yada yada, but tbh I've yet to find one detractor on here wrt this argument whose experience with dogs matches mine.

I think that if he isn't going to move his dog then the child should be moved. If it wasn't a safety issue, I'd stand and argue until I was blue in the face. Dogs sense fear and anger and i wouldn't want to aggrivate that sense. But he isn't doing anything wrong having his dog around, and as much as the OP can ask him to move/call his dog, surely he could do the same about the child. It isn't an ideal situation but it's realistic...especially with the chavs in my area.

How odd Muddle, you got rid of your pet when you got pregnant??

Valhalla, I do wonder why you feel the need to add a list of your rescue activities on your posts and state that nobody else has experience to match yours. How can you possibly know that unless we all leave a note on each post listing our credentials? Because we disagree with you and therefore must be wrong?
I'm not getting into justifying my qualifications or experience or whatever you call it but I have very, very similar experience to yours and have a different opinion.

Cars aren't dangerous, until you leave a child in the pathway of one. Same goes for dogs. It is the parents' responsibility if the dog is at home. If out and about perhaps dog owners and parents should be more vigilant. My original pet was an alsation and while she loves people, she gets excited and jumps up-usually knocking people over, and she is kept on a leash at all times. If my dog and neices are in the back of the car (to and from the beach) my mum muzzles her to ensure nothing can happen.

MuddlePuddle - you love dogs but abandoned yours to someone else when you fell pregnant??

Can you not see the irony in your comment?

There are thousands upon thousands of us who DIDN'T get rid of our dogs when we got pregnant - and one of us who ... shock horror... adopted an unknown Staffie cross from the pound when her children were babies.

Our children are still intact. As I said, mine are hands on rescue volunteers.

MRSC I had a massive Alsation, and she always knocked me over, so she lives at my mums (with 30acres of Welsh countryside at her peril!). I see her all the time but with a 7 mo son it just isn't ideal right now.

MuddlePuddle, another thing... can you quote me the Act that the law wrt keeping dogs which don't come to recall on leashes is from please?

Oh stop with your arrogance, I didn't abandon my dog, she is at my mothers with a lot of run around space. It would be irresponsible for me to leave an Alsation with a newborn. And while I am not a dog rescuer, I am intelligent enough to know that babies and dogs aren't always a great combination. It isn't as though I left her tied to a lampost somewhere for goodness' sake

Local authorities have the power, under Section 27 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, to designate roads where it's an offence to permit a dog to be unless it's on a lead.

Under the Metropolitan Police Act 1839 (or the Town Police Clauses Act 1847, as appropriate depending on the location), it's an offence to allow a dog to put in fear any person or animal on the street. (In some cases, it could be argued that failing to keep a dog on a lead could contravene these laws).

The Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 makes it an offence 'allow a dog to be dangerously out of control in a public place'. (Once again, failure to keep a dog on a lead could, under some circumstances, fall foul of this legislation)

The Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005 empowers local authorities to designate areas of land (including footpaths) where dogs must be kept on a lead.

The Control of Dogs Order 1992 requires all dogs, in a public place, to wear a collar which has the name & address of the owner on it (or on a tag attached to the collar). However, there's no requirement that the collar should be attached to a lead.

Otherwise, there's very little relevant legislation. The law places a duty of 'due care' on everybody. The courts could interpret this as meaning that dogs should be kept 'under proper control' in public places. A 'public place' doesn't have to mean publicly-owned land. It can also refer to any land to which the public has access.

No, it's irresponsible not to train your dog in order to prevent him from knocking you (and thus presumably other people he meets) over and then taking it out on the poor bloody dog by uprooting it from it's home.

And the term you're looking for is probably German Shepherd Dog, not "Alsation" (or even Alsatian). I have two.

What Valhalla said.

The man knew his dog was friendly and under control. He knew he would come when called. He was only 10m away. If you were unhappy, you could have asked him to put the dog on a lead.

You're understandably nervous, having been bitten twice. However I wouldn't transfer your fear of dogs to your daughter. Just teach her that some dogs are friendly and some aren't (just like humans) and she needs to check with you or the owner before she pats a dog.

[s.3(1) Dangerous Dogs Act 1991] - and the definition of dangerously out of control is 'any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure any person'.

Valhalla - you adopted an unknown dog when your children were babies?? Glad you had your priorities straight

Vallhula...Alsatian/German Shepherd whatver. THe fact is, I regard my safety and my child's safety over the need to be my dog's best friend. Train a dog as you like, you remove their natural instinct.