to think that most welsh people should speak some welsh

[mumof2children]

i am no way fluent in welsh by know very basic welsh.

but sould more welsh people speak some welsh

CurryFreak & BigOfNorcs - I agree with you. As we're all proposing to those who agree with us on this thread, I'll marry you both .

Do you know that the S4C loses £100million of taxpayers money every year (by loses, I mean the difference between what it makes and what it costs, not what is wasted on it.

Also, i work in the printing industry. So I know that circa £13.33 million a year is wasted on printing everything bilingual for the minority that want this.

Plus, to go back to an earlier point, the amount that would then be wasted on the amount of puplis forced into a subject that they did not listen to merely because they were forced (that was the right idea, wasn't it?).

And ... as for giving welsh schools more funding than english schools, well that's just dispicable. A government that forcibly deprives children whose parents did not send them to a school which intends to keep them confined to the same tiny country for the rest of their life. What a society we live in!

No, the country is the united kingdom. Wales isn't a country. Neither is Scotland come to that.

Wales isn't a country?...Right fuck this, im off

What a load of small minded, idiotic twaddle.

I suggest some of you come and live in a community such as the one where I live and then you would realise how ridiculous what you are saying really is.

TheAtomicbum, You're brillant. You have summed ut up so well, i could kiss you.

domestic, what's ridicululous, is the millions of pounds spent to try and force feed a languge to many who have no interest in learning it, and deprivivng the majority.
It's more than riduculous, it's fucking outragous.

YABU. I'm fluent.

and Yabu not to put a capital W in Welsh.

I'm glad some people agree with my point of view, Curry. Normally (out here in the real world) I'm the only one who speaks up in these debates. So it's kind of 3 onto 1, with 5 staying silent.

NerdyFace - It depends on how you look at it as to whether or not you think Wales is still a country.

Our Governmnent is still in England. Our Army is the British Army, etc. And we recived 40-50% more back from the budget than we pay in taxes.

Financially, we would not survive without this aid. Therefore, we are part of Great Britain, and trying to separate us from it very counterproductive.

fuck off. Wales IS a country and anyone who says it isn't is as ignorant as fuck and should keep their small minded opinions to themselves.

Anyone who doesn't understand Welsh culture, and more importantly the oppression of the Welsh and it's language and culture, should butt out of the argument, because they don't know what they are talking about.

Show some respect, people, Wales has a capital 'W'.

Why is the idea that the welsh have a seperate identity considered to be a good thing? Surely we want to minimise all the made up things that allow people to pretend they are different to other people like religion, nationalism and regionalism.

I lived in Wales till I was 7 then from 14-21, then from 40-45. I've actually heard about 5 people have a conversation in it (at Chapter arts centre). This is Cardiff btw, so not the heart of the naturally Welsh speaking land. 80% don't speak it at all throughout all of Wales. We were brought up speaking English and it is as much our country as native Welsh speakers and I think we should have a say. The amount of money going into it and time and resources is disproportionate to the use it has, unless you only ever want to stay in Wales. I know 10 people working for Welsh govt. Not one speaks Welsh at all. A friend has put her DS right through Welsh nursery etc and regrets it because it is ultra cliquey. She even did the language for years so she could feel included. She never was and still doesn't know enough to help him with his homework. There is enough Welsh speakers to keep it alive and I think possibly it should be taught in all primary schools as part of the culture etc but from secondary, unless you wish to continue (and I'm sure many would), it needs to be optional in English speaking state schools. Four lessons in Welsh over a fortnight when you're only getting 5 in maths and English is ridiculous when kids are leaving school semi-illiterate and unable to do basic arithmetic.

Wales isn't a country. That's a simple statement of fact.

The official language of the UK is English. That's all there is too it really.

LookToWindward

It's a frigging country, ok!!! You really don't know what you are talking about!

How dare you!

www.wales.com/en/content/cms/faqs/faqs.aspx

"11. Is Wales a Country or a Principality?

Wales is not a Principality. Although we are joined with England by land, and we are part of Great Britain, Wales is a country in it's own right."

Not sure

We're immigrants but we've had a child since we were here and I am trying to learn Welsh myself (struggling to fit it in ATM but certainly an aim) as I think the boys (all of primary age or younger) should know some.

Mind, Grandad was born here and lived here for thirty years... claims fluency but unless there's a very specific hybrid in Pembrokeshire where 'mumble mumble boyo' is used instead of Bore Da, then he's lying

And of course Wales is a country - that's why there's a separate footie team, rugby etc.

Or do you know many people wearing UK Rugby Team shirts? nope, thought not! Five nations?

We don;t ehar people using it much truth be told but we've been up to North Wales this summer and it was great to hear people speaking it daily.

The closest Wales gets is part of the legal entity called 'England and Wales' created by the Laws in Wales Acts implemented between 1535 to 1542.

You'll forgive me if I take documented history over something published by the Welsh Assembly.

Oh and

A) as an immigrant albeit one with Welsh roots at Grandfatherly level, I have no issue with the culture here: it's in no way challenging or anti English (in my area anyway)

B) How many Welsh people don't speak fluent English? yet to meet one!

Why is it a good thing to be a seperate country?

Thank you for that hairy, I can't read anymore of this thread now I may well explode, I'm English as well so goodness only knows how Welsh people must feel, DH (Welsh speaking only until 5 as many children here are) is the local, but I choose to live here as it's a bloody fantastic place with welcoming people and a fab occasionally hilarious culture. I like it a hell of a lot more than England and my home place which was filled with bigoted cliques of people, I think you'll find them everywhere.

Nerdyface et al, lovely to meet you, hope to see you on a more pleasant thread.

oh piss off lookwindward. We are a country, always have been, always will be.

Coalition I take umbridge at people who discredit a country for it's seperate culture and language, both of which are things to be cherished. It is a good thing to cherish a language and culture.

Sanctimoanyarse

b) why does it matter?
people have the right to discourse in the language they wish, including when it's the language they can most freely express themselves in.

You haven't met any. I have met plenty.

For the record I am a second language Welsh speaker.

Why is it a bad thing to be a separate entity within the UK?

Whilst I think England seriously needs it's own version of the Assembly to look after it's interests (being from Somerset the whole London Mayor thing was almost an irrelevance- something more national) I don't see why there's a problem with the way it is.

B) absolutely, I was challenging a previous point

I am th4e last prson you'll find complaining abut Welsh speakers; I moved here, it's my job to elarn the langauge if I wish to communicate with native speakers.

Ah! Diolch Sanctimoanyarse - sorry I got wrong end of stick :)