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AIBU?

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Original poster

Should I not say anything?

49 replies

happychappy · 19/09/2010 16:02

Bear with me this is long. My sister is crazy mad in love. Great but he's an idiot. He's 35 never worked and they have been living with my Mum and Dad. She's just finished her degree. My dad's been giving them money to live on and living rent free in the family home. To make matter worse they had a child, which I am very happy she is here but perhaps a few years later would have been better. Perhaps when one one them have worked for more than five minutes. He's an artist and Romanian. He thinks he can work as an artist in Romania and has taken them both off to Romania, to live on the 9th floor in a block of flats. In a two bedroom apartment, shared with the blind grandmother and the arthritic mother. Mother works, they are now living off her. My sister doesn't speak Romanian and has a 5 months old daughter and no friends in the area. We are justifiably concerned not least because the boyfriend has been driving wedges between my mother and my other sister and her. He hasn't with me because I don't live in the UK and don't register as a thread (I think). She very dependent anyway.

He's orthodox, and wants to marry. Two weeks after arriving my sister has got herself and her daughter baptised. She hasn't told any of her family before, didn't invite or even say. She still hasn't told my mother she was baptised. I'm hurt. I would have very much liked to have been there or at least invited. We don't even know who the godparents are plus she said I quote 'it was lovely like being part of a community'. Surely our first community is that of our families. I'm speechless, hurt and scared to say anything in case I upset her and she decides to close our relationship. This is what the boyfriend is working towards.

Advice, sorry I know its long.......
Not so happychappy

OP posts:
pinkbasket · 19/09/2010 16:03

Your sister is happy. Stay out of it.

StealthPolarBear · 19/09/2010 16:06

hmm thats a tough one

if she's genuinely happy, stay out
if you think she might not be then tell her once that you'll always be there for her and support her

Shock at them living off the earnings of a (presumably) elderly, arthritic woman

Original poster
happychappy · 19/09/2010 16:09

Im not though, she baptised my niece without inviting me, or anybody in my family. Or even telling me.

If she were in the UK I would have said I'm upset because I would have liked to have been there. These events of the family are important to me and generally to everybody in my family.

She can do what she likes with her own life but to exclude us like that and then go on about being part a community pisses me off. Further she moans about Mum and how she's not family orientated (code for doesn't run around after me all the time) and she slams the door on us all. Its not so much about the situation she's in, her life, but more I don't feel I can say anything in case she needs me in the future or she thinks can come to me

OP posts:
Original poster
happychappy · 19/09/2010 16:10

cant come to me even

OP posts:
Onetoomanycornettos · 19/09/2010 16:10

Oh dear, HappyChappy, I can see why you are worried, but I do think PinkBasket is right, your sister appears happy, and you just need to be hanging around in the background, ready to support her if needs be or to share in her happiness a bit if it works out well. I can understand why you are a bit annoyed about the christening, but not all christenings are a big deal and it sounds like your sister has been baptised herself so she can marry in the Orthodox church, so from her perspective, it's not about inviting everyone, but fulfilling an administrative obligation (and obviously decided to have her daughter baptised too).

I know what you mean about the flat, and the relatives, but you also have to understand that many people in Eastern Europe are poor, I suspect they are not that chuffed about living squashed in a grotty flat in Romania themselves. He may well be a waster, but I still don't see what you can do, apart from keep the door open and try not to judge them too much, otherwise your sister will feel isolated and turn towards her 'new' family more. As for the 'community' remark, it sounds fine to me, I think you are being a little paranoid, tbh, she's trying to make the best of a not ideal situation.

pinkbasket · 19/09/2010 16:12

It is tough really that you are not happy her daughter has been baptised. It really is nothing to do with you. Maybe they didn't invite you as it was too far to come, maybe they didn't want you there, maybe they feel you interfere.

CarGirl · 19/09/2010 16:15

I would be offering for you sister to come visit you for a weeks holiday every now and then, that way if there is a problem hopefully she will tell you and have the opportunity to get out?

If she is happy you get to see sister and dn anyway.

I wouldn't say anything, if it crops in conversation you could ask to see photos, mention that you wish you could have been there etc.

JaneS · 19/09/2010 16:17

Wow.

That is very tough, and it does sound as if he is rather over-optimistic. Would it be possible for you to talk fall-back plans if he doesn't make it as an artist?

I would say, my DH is Orthodox and Eastern European (though not Romanian). It is a cultural thing that you don't date unless you are head-over-heels with someone and really think it will work long-term, which may be why he is suggesting marriage so soon? He may think your sister expects to hear that, you see - as a sign of respect to her that it's a serious relationship. I know of couples who've been decorously 'engaged' for years, before splitting and going their separate ways.

The other thing is, that sort of crowding may not sound like a problem to him. Does your sister think it sounds ok? Has she talked to him about how long it might last? I wonder if she thinks it's a short-term measure, whereas he expects it to be a permanent thing.

If it helps, my MIL stayed with us on the sofa in our tiny one-bed flat, and I did notice that she was very good at being considerate in such cramped conditions. So, it would probably not be as bad as if that many British-raised people tried to share so small a space. If this family are like my husband's family, they expect to share small rooms with several generations, and everyone is very good at being considerate of each other.

I really do see why you're worried. I would be. I just hope that maybe it's not so bad as you were thinking.

JaneS · 19/09/2010 16:19

Btw, if it is your sister who was baptised, DH says it would be normal for non-Orthodox family not to attend. Some of these things aren't quite the same sort of inclusive social occasions that they are in the West.

Orangerie · 19/09/2010 16:21

If it helps... we didn't invite my family or the inlaws to DS' baptism. Our wedding was a bloody nightmare trying to please all of them so... in the morning after the wedding we woke up very fed up with it all, it certainly ruined something that important to us, so we swore that if we ever had a baby, the baptism would be a clandestine one as we couldn't bear to go through the same. We followed it through.

PErhaps your concerns for your sister are becoming too much for her? I have a dreadful BIL but if I want my sister to come around and enjoy herself, and for her to feel welcome in our presence, we need to treat him well, otherwise she starts avoiding us as she is mortified about the situation. Obviously, she has her priorities right and as much as we are her family, she is not going to put us before her husband and father of her children. Simples... and right.

Original poster
happychappy · 19/09/2010 16:23

Thank you everyone
It was both that was baptised, they've got no money to come visit. She English so knows the score. She's only been there less than a month she could have don't in the UK or let us know so we could have come.

My mother came to Italy for 1 afternoon to see my daughter take her first communion. She knows an invitation was a minimum

All his family were there

OP posts:
hairytriangle · 19/09/2010 16:24

Sorry OP but you are well out of order here. It's essentially up to them who they invite to what, where and how they live.
Stay out of it.

DetectivePotato · 19/09/2010 16:24

Sounds like you are more upset about being excluded. Its her life and up to her what she does.

Original poster
happychappy · 19/09/2010 16:25

Organgerie When he's mentioned I don't have the conversation, her life. I make no comment. Unless I have something good to say say nothing

OP posts:
ChaoticAngel · 19/09/2010 16:26

"She English so knows the score."

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

JaneS · 19/09/2010 16:27

If you are baptized (actually, she will have been chrismated, I think?) in the Orthodox Church, it is different from an Anglican or Catholic service.

The familiar Christian religions in this country - CofE, Catholic, Baptist, Evangelical, etc. - love to make converts. They really want people to join in and we've probably all come across someone who wants to convert us to their religion. The Orthodox Church is different: they do like converts, but they are incredibly concerned that people who are not Orthodox might (for want of a better word) pollute the church ceremonies. A non-Orthodox person can't take communion in an Orthodox Church, they can't be a god-parent. They will probably not be made to feel welcome unless they are open to conversion.

So, the OP's sister may have been doing her a favour by not inviting her. I expect she'd been feeling like an outsider herself for a while, then suddenly, when she chose to convert, the Orthodox Church felt like a welcoming 'community' (as the OP says). It's a really hard situation for the OP and her sister, but the sister isn't just being selfish - it's the Orthodox Church that is rather careful about whom it lets in.

JaneS · 19/09/2010 16:30

OP, to re-phrase that better (sorry, I am not good at this): your sister may have been discouraged from inviting you, and if you had gone, you might have found it quite an isolating or even an upsetting experience.

So she may not have been being selfish, you see.

Original poster
happychappy · 19/09/2010 16:32

I am, she knows these things are important to me. When my niece was born I flew over to see her even though we didn't have any money. When its come to family I drop everything they are the most important thing.

I am very angry about it, not just for me but also for my family. They have supported her financially and emotionally for 2 years and she and her boyfriend have taken it. When they left the boyfriend was very rude and insulting to my mother and she took his side, which is spectacularly ungrateful but besides the point. The point is she then excludes us all.

I know in my heart I can't say anything but I'm not good at keeping my anger out of sight. If I'm not happy about something it generally comes out. So part of me thinks I should say something so it comes out the right way not as a rant. Which is generally would be the alternative.

OP posts:
Original poster
happychappy · 19/09/2010 16:36

ChaoticAngel, That was taken out of context. Someone said that generally these events are different in Romania to here. I'm responding she knows in England its not the same and she knows that and things are not the same in Romania is not an excuse.

LittleRedDragon, thats a scary thought.

OP posts:
ChaoticAngel · 19/09/2010 16:42

"My sister is crazy mad in love. Great but he's an idiot."

Thanks for the clarification.

However, I get the feeling that, apart from the valid reasons that LRD has given, one of the reasons she hasn't invited you may be to do with the above quotation I've taken from your op. She probably knows your opinion of him and if I was her knowing that I wouldn't have invited you either.

Original poster
happychappy · 19/09/2010 16:54

Know I never said anything negative about him. She thinks I like him. Its not my place to judge him, its her boyfriend. I do judge because I'm human but I keep that to myself and my god

OP posts:
JaneS · 19/09/2010 16:55

Happy, which is a scary thought? (There are so many things I said that could be scary!).

I think you are doing the right thing worrying about her, even though it's not fun for her of for you. That way, even if it all turns out badly, she will know you were there for her. There are so, so many threads in relationships where the OP claims that her family all like her bloke, when we only find out later that they thought he was horrible but didn't say so at the time.

The thing I would stress against that, though, is that while a Christening may be a big event to you here, it may not be to your sister or her partner. You might have to give up on that one and try to find some other common ground for a family celebration - Easter, maybe?

Original poster
happychappy · 19/09/2010 16:57

So at the end what do you think, say nothing and be cross or say something and how should be said?

Thats the choice!

OP posts:
Morloth · 19/09/2010 17:03

I wouldn't say anything if you don't want to piss her off.

She is an adult who can do what she likes, your approval (or lack of) has no meaning really.

JaneS · 19/09/2010 17:05

I think you should say something. Because if you don't, your sister may feel you like this guy and approve of him, when you don't. But, it sounds to me as if what bothers isn't so much the guy, is it? It's the strangeness of the situation, and your worry that your sister will not be able to adapt (am I right?).

I think it is really difficult. But, just based on what you've said here, I think you could:

  1. Talk to your sister. Be happy for her. If you can, be interested in her new religion and try not to say anything negative.

  2. Ask her about her plans, without judging her on them. This way, at least you'll find out if she thinks they'll stay in Romania permanently, and if she thinks they'll live in the tiny flat with her MIL permanently.

I think if she knows you are quietly questioning, but also supportive and interested, she'll open up. I guess the really important thing isn't whether or not you get invited to a baptism, it's whether or not you get to share your life with your sister - if she knows you feel like that, that you care and don't want to be left out, I hope she'll respond. She is a new convert so bound to be a little over-strict, but she will probably mellow later on.