to believe some if not all of the 9/11 conspiracy theories

[mrsunreasonable]

NOTE: This is not meant to be offensive and if you suffered as a result of 9/11 you have my deepest sympathies it was a terrible event however it was caused.

Having watched a few documentaries on the conspiracy theories I am partially if not completely convinced all was not as it seemed. The fact that many witnesses that saw/heard things that didn't tie in with the official version have since died in suspicious circumstances doesn't help!

No, "why is this lying bastard lying to me" isn't a very healthy start point when you find something makes you uncomfortable.

A healthy start point, is to ask why it makes you uncomfortable, and check whether that needs to be revised in the light of new information, or the new information rejected.

Asking what the motives are of someone who is trying to persuade you of something is healthy scepticism though.

No, you're presuming again. Just because they're right-wing, in the sense of hating big government and Orwellian style surveillance and CIA dishonesty, whatever, I don't know, you ascribe to them other right wing characteristics like racism and a belief that their country stands above all others. I mean, it's not racist to highlight the syphilis case.

What other conspiracy theories does racism lie at the heart of? IYO. Name er two. Or is this the only one?

Asking about the motives of someone trying to persuade you of something: trans (coll) why is this lying bastard lying to me.

We're closer than you might think. Anyway I only got involved to point out that you don't have to be insane to ask questions about the actions of governments which might or might not be sinister, which is what you, expat, tokyo, kaloki, sgb etc all imply or directly assert. I think it's great to say a big fat NO sometimes. Not enough people do it.

If explanation X doesn't seem to fit event Y, it's great to say so.

No, I'm not claiming that racism is the source of all conspiracy theories. I'm saying that cognitive dissonance is the cause of many conspiracy theories.

Why were some people unable to accept that a bunch of pissed of radicals highjacked some planes and flew them into the WTC? Because it didn't fit with their sense of themselves, their position in the world, and their perception of what people from other parts of the world are like. The theories started WAY before there was any 'evidence' for them.

I'm not sure that the other right-wing things you mention would have caused the same kind of conflict. The hating big-government does make the new narrative of conspiracy fit nicely with their preconceptions though.

If you want a conspiracy theory with racism at it's heart, you could check out the 'Jews secretly run the world' one. Which sometimes get's restated as 'shadowy group runs the world', or 'lizards run the world'. But even when they say lizards, they probably really mean Jews.

The Obama is a Muslim conspiracy theory is also racist in origin.

Appletrees - I don't have a problem with questioning Government. I have a problem with treating conspiracy theory websites and literature as a legitimate source.

Oh yes those two. Quite right. Good points.

As to the rest, well probably if their own and other governments hadn't multiply been discovered to be engaged in criminal, unethical, mendacious and anti-democratic behaviour over the years involving significant events then, yes, you might say the problem is all in their heads.

But as they have, then they're not that way off the mark saying oh hang on a minute.

Do you think that if the Russians had done it there would be the same search for alternative explanations?

"What other conspiracy theories does racism lie at the heart of?"

Find a conspiracy theory that doesn't, at some point, find a way to rope Jews into it and you'll have done a good day's work. 9/11 (the Jews all got out early, you know). Pearl Harbour was planned (the Jews wanted to get the US into the war). The Holocaust is a lie (the Jews lie about it). The media are controlled by the Jews ('nuff said).

Handily, technically speaking anti-semitism covers the Arabs as well! Though not the Persians.

Hang on, that last point I made relates to a whole different shtick I do, and doesn't seem to relate to this thread at all. Please ignore it.

Tokyo, respond to everything else posted very pithily to you, instead of running away when it gets sticky and coming back when you think Oh I can do this one.

I mean you don't have to, but you know, that's what you did.

YY I agree about the anti-Semitism. I have no idea about the Russians. I don't know what you're talking about there.

So far as I can tell, your "pithiness" consists of knowing that everyone involved in telling you anything is a liar, except for nutters on websites who you agree with, who are always right. It's impossible to respond to that, because you'll always be able to say "ah, but they're all liars". I'm happy to acknowledge your mastery of the field and surrender. You're right. This country is just like Nazi Germany and Communist Russia. Only you can see the truth. I am not worthy. Etc.

You're making things up now. You ARE an oddity.

"Coalition: you labour under the misapprehension that governments actually give a shit. They really don't. Not about their servicemen and women, civilians killed, large scale humanitarian suffering, nothing. They really don't, except for how it sells and, following from that, their own protection. Much in the way that corporations don't care about their customers. I mean, a few individuals might, a bit. But on the whole not at all."

I think my summary of that is fairly accurate. You don't believe there is any difference between governments of any stripe, be they Denmark or North Korea. It's hard to argue with that position. Since democracies change their governments every few years, you either believe there is an immense conspiracy behind it all, or that people happily elect appalling regimes and then sit back while the awfulness happens. And believing that makes you the winner in terms of insight. I think it's cheap cynicism to adopt the position that the no government in the world "give(s) a shit, they really don't" about "large scale humanitarian suffering". Now, could you tell me why that position isn't equating the UK (say) with North Korea (say)?

Rather than thinking there must be a conspiracy behind it all, I merely consider that when it comes to the interests a government has, there will necessarily be a conflict of interest with what is in the best interests of those they are supposed to be looking after. In much the same way that drug companies wish to make money first and foremost.....

No it's completely wrong. You're completely wrong. Honestly I don't understand the way you think at all. You seem to be full of bad feeling towards people who disagree with you.

I think I've made my point very well and I'm happy for you to disagree. So there we are!

With respect, could someone who defends the official version please explain why there are so many whistleblowers? Have you seen the film 'Zero', shown on primetime tv in several countries? It showcases many, many whistleblowers from the US military, FBI, etc.

Paul Craig Roberts Reagan's Assistant Secretary of the Treasury is hardly some fool in a tinfoil hat.

What is he saying? (On phone)

Oh yes, it's much easier to write people off as loons than explain your point of view - that way you don't have to consider their opinions in the first place - much easier to bury head in sand.

Roberts is a loon. If he's the best you've got, you're in a desperate state. He is precisely a loon in a tinfoil hat. America is a puppet of Israel, California is a "failed state" (which will come as news to holiday-making in LA: perhaps they should try Somalia instead). "Americans think that they are a superpower, but in fact they are a stupor-power. A puppet state if truth be known." Straight-forward right-wing lunacy. If he's what the troofers who don't wear tin-foil hats look like, I'd hate to meet the ones you think are a bit sketchy.

full insanity here

"We all know the answer. The US talks a good ?human rights? game, but never delivers--especially if the human rights abuser is Israel. After all, Israel owns the US Congress and President Obama. Israel even has an Israeli citizen and former member of the Israeli Defense Forces as the Chief-of-Staff in Obama?s White House. Israel owns millions of American ?Christian Zionists? and ?rapture evangelicans.? When it comes to Israel, the American government is a puppet state. It does what it is told."

"Meanwhile, California, which has become a failed state, has been denied bailout money from Washington. Israel, which has been a failed state for 60 years, can, unlike the American state of California, always count of Washington to deliver the money and the weapons to keep Israel going."

Oh and he's about as much a whistleblower about events in 2001 as Barbara Castle is an expert on Blair's government.

That video's TEN MINUTES LONG! What does he say in it?

wiki him: he's of the Zionist conspiracy crew