To think that those who persistantly start Muslim-bashing threads should get a life.

[GothAnneGeddes]

I'm sick of the same names spewing the same arguments, with the same inability to use Google to find out what other Muslim women think (as any Muslim women who post are not deemed sufficiently Muslim to matter.)

I'm sick of Saudi Arabia always being mentioned, when only about 1% of the world's Muslims live there. Talking about Saudi Arabia to condemn all Muslims should be viewed in the same manner as Godwin's Law.

If you are that concerned about the wellbeing of Muslim women, give some money to the Pakistani flood survivors.

'because sexism exists so deeply in so many cultures'

You've answered your own question there really.

I don't get it.

My point is that I am finely tuned to sexism as I know how deeply it exists at every level in society. So to be told 'well actually in this case, it isn't sexism, it's just that all the women in our faith want to follow the clothing rules but we don't really know why the men don't, that's up to them' sounds a bit like a cover up of sexism.

Unless your argument is 'yes it is is sexist but so is your culture too'?

Right, as I've pointed out, when following the religious guidelines, men's dress really isn't very different from women's. That is the religion.

How people choose to practice the religion is often due to cultural interpretation. If that culture is sexist, then their interpretation of the religion is also likely to be sexist.

Ok. So if I want to throw accusations of sexism, I need to pick on the culture not the religion.

Does anybody know the name of the culture that would expect girls and women of their faith in Edinburgh to cover themslves in religious dress, but not the men or boys of that faith?

I want to at least point the finger at the right source.

Don't live in Scotland, so you'll have to work that one out for yourself.

Look, people are asking what is in the Islam religion in terms of written in texts. We are explaining.

Religious ideology and cultural practice are not the same thing. Yes, if you don't know much about either they can be interchangeable, but that's precisely because of your lack of knowledge.

Look, people are asking what is in the Islam religion in terms of written in texts. We are explaining.

Religious ideology and cultural practice are not the same thing. Yes, if you don't know much about either they can be interchangeable, but that's precisely because of your lack of knowledge.

SWC - People are asking for the Muslim perspective. I am explaining how a Muslim may feel about certain issues.

There's a difference between Arab culture, Pakistani culture and Malay culture, yet these are all Muslim majority countries.

Likewise, there's a difference between Brazilian and Pinoy culture, yet they are both mainly Catholic countries.

So no, religion is not culture. Look up the two words in a dictionary and note the definition.

If you said the Buddhist religion and Japanese culture were interchangable, people would think you were ignorant. Just saying, 'Well, I'm an atheist so I don't know the difference', doesn't make it any more correct.

If you don't care then why ask in the first place?!

Or is it that you just want to wallow in your own prejudices free from anyone correcting you?

I agree with you SWC. Religion is one aspect of culture. So people may be culturally English, Pakistani and Muslim, or they may be English, Pakistani and Christian, or they may be English, Iranian and Muslim. These will be different aspects to their cultural influences.

I really dislike the 'oh, but that is not what it says in the Bible' and all the variations on that for the various different religions. What it says in the Bible isn't relevant to people of other faiths and none. What matters is the cultural habits of the religious group in question and how they impact on society.

All that aside, YANBU OP. There have been some very disturbing remarks on MN recently. Someone posted about Islam growing at an alarming rate. That was a very disturbing comment.

Also, the person going on about pagan stereotypes. Almost nobody in the 21st century believes pagans worship the devil. A minority of Pagans often feel the need to point out they don't worship the devil, presumably because it makes some pagans feel more exciting and edgy to have to fend off such imaginary sleights.

I'm just going to chuck this in the mix, I found this the other night, is about Muslim women political cartoonists.londonprogressivejournal.com/article/594/muslim-women-find-expression-through-cartoons well I never eh?

Not the usual bunch of arss stereotypes being rolled out by the Muslim bashes on mumsnet.Trust me British women political cartoonist are finding it equally as hard to get stuff up there.It will come as some surprise to some that it has been a Muslim country, that have had a published women political cartoonists for quite some time WAY long before this country's press only recently got its act together over lack of representation of women in this field.

Id like to add, that Iv always hated wearing skirts since I was a kid.I find being forced to wear one extremely oppressive.What is so different about the female anatomy that it requires that the genital region to be instantly accessible?

They are impractical for little girls,(Try climbing a tree, eeeck pants on show, or falling off a bike in one, I had raw mince for knees, they really do inhibit alot of play)As far as I can see they only seem to signifie the gender of the wearer.Or they would make boys and men wear them.

And for the bashers, look closer to home first, stop being brainwashed by the fox news type bollox that is slowly seeping into this country media.

Lastly Id like to wish the Muslims on this thread Eid Sa?eed