letting my children run around naked on a beach

[Goofymum]

A few days ago I took my 2 year old DD and 5 year old DD to the beach. It is a lovely beach and not very crowded, only 2 or 3 groups of people per large section of beach. I let my DDs run around naked for while before we went home (they asked to go naked). My parents were with me and they weren't bothered. The few families left on the beach weren't bothered either. But when my DH heard about it he was horrified. He said my 5 year old (she is very tall, perhaps passes for 6?) is too old to run around naked, other people would feel uncomfortable and it's just not right. We 'debated' it for a while and I thought I'd get the opinion of sensible people on MN - did I have a big lapse in judgement or was it OK to let my DDs run around naked?!

[LadyBiscuit]

They can do all those things. But I wouldn't deny my child the freedom of enjoying the sun on their bum in the unlikely event that there is a paedophile with a telephoto lens.

Every single person I know who has been abused as a child (and sadly I know rather more than I'd like to) was abused by a member of their family or a family friend. I am much more concerned about that happening than the former.

[JjandtheBeanlovesUnicorns]

no, no nakedness in public for ds 3 or dd 1, at risk of sounding paranoid i dont want total strangers seeing them nude.

[Heracles]

Why? What will happen if they do?

[amberleaf]

I wouldnt let my children go naked.

Some may find it depressing-but i dont want a paedophile even thinking about my child while watching them play innocently.

I have taught my children that 'privates' are called 'privates' because you should keep them private!

Wearing swimwear never got in the way of their fun or innocence, i didnt tell them to wear swimming costumes because of paedophiles-they just wore them because thats what we do.

I wouldnt be offended by naked children, but i do wonder if their parents may feel differently if they had any experience of child protection issues?

[JjandtheBeanlovesUnicorns]

heracles, nothing id hope, but i feel protective of them, i dont want people seeing every inch of my babies, its totally unecessary, plus, ds loves his buzz swim shorts, im more paranoid since a KNOWN 100% not gossip convicted peadophile decided to talk to my dd on the bus, i actually was physically sick when i got off, it really bothered me

i agree with amber leaf

[Rosypose]

I feel very sad that this should be an issue at all!

[frogetyfrog]

Chippingin - 'They can take photos and circulate them, they can alter the photos to make the situation quite different from the one in which the photo was taken... there is a lot of harm they can do without actually touching a child. These photos are then out there - on the interenet, possibly resufacing at some stage, leaving the child/adult having to defend themselves, being left to 'prove' it wasn't them.'

What would they be defending themselves about? Genuine question from a confused mner. I am assuming you mean having to prove they havent been sexually abused. Or do you mean the photos can be altered to suggest they are abusing somebody else? Sorry to be frank but I am concerned and confused.

[littlesez]

I find it depressing that children cannot be free and naked just incase there is a paedo watching.

YANBU but I also understand why your hubby was upset he just wants to protect his kids.

I let my baby walk around naked on holiday, it didnt ever cross my mind that there would be a pervert watching her

I hate it that paedophilia exists, it really really fucks me off. sorry I know that is a daft thing to say, but it makes me so fucking angry that people have to worry about photo's, nakedness, talking to strangers and all kinds of dilemma's surrounding their children just in case a rare occasion of something vile , urghh

[WoodyAllen]

We live on the coast and spend a lot of time on the beach. DS (5) is often naked. DD2 (2) sometimes is and DD1 (6) often is too. Never noticed anyone appearing to think anything. At least my kids have sun cream on, I was always naked on the beach with nothing at all. They'll get self conscious soon enough. And paedophiles might be hanging about but having shorts on isn't going to get rid of them. Frankly I think it's a TINY minority and not something that should dictate how free my children feel. Fully supervised by me of course.

[sharbie]

I wouldn't but I have seen men on beaches with binoculars in the past acting very suspiciously - this is a very real risk imo and people should bear it in mind

[amberleaf]

@WoodyAllen
Not as tiny as you may think.

[frogetyfrog]

Sharbie - maybe they were looking at the boats or the birds. I myself have taken binoculars on beaches and would usually have them with me on walks (which may include time on a beach). As would my darling grandad who is far from being a paedophile! Or maybe they had their binoculars on the lovely figure of the 22 year old blonde down the beach!!

Surely there cant be such huge numbers of people interested in children in a sexual way that they are at significant risk of being photographed on a beach? Or am I being naive.

Is there anybody who works in child protection can shed light on the real risk?

[sharbie]

one was on the cliff laying flat face down in the grass - very close to lots of other people but with his binoculars trained on the beach below - looked very strange

every time i glared at him he looked out to sea with them - i was sat there for a while and i'm pretty sure what i saw was a bit dodgy

[frogetyfrog]

But he could have been interested in the woman of consenting age? That is probably more likely surely? There must be more men purving at grown women than at children.

[WoodyAllen]

Paedophiles look at kids clothed too. You might not want one thinking about your child but keeping them dressed isn't going to make much difference. I grew up in London and had some serious issues with men who targeted me when I was 11. It was the school uniform that turned them on. I have been on the receiving end and it was very unpleasant, lovely police were involved and it was resolved after two arrests. If a sick character is interested in your kids it doesn't make a difference whether they are on a beach, online or hanging round the playground. Or on my train home, as one of mine was.

[sharbie]

maybe but i don't recall any bikini clad ladies there that day - not that busy mostly children on beach but, if you don't want to hear that people are around like that hey it's your choice

[frogetyfrog]

Sharbie - I know people like that are around. I just want to know what the real risk is as am genuinely confused.

I let my children go naked practically where they want (park, beach, garden etc). But wouldnt let them in the park out of my sight for example as am worried about them being snatched. Am trying to work out my logic. I can only think that it is because deep down I think being perved at is less awful than them being snatched.

But then when somebody mentioned photos being altered further up thread I started to worry.

I dont know what I think.

[amberleaf]

Woody

I know they look at kids fully clothed too, that doesnt in my book mean its ok to allow them to look at my children naked.

[ChippingIn]

FrogetyFrog I don't want to say too much and honestly the less you know about some of these things the better - you can provide a more innocent childhood for your children. I think you already do the right thing by allowing them to be naked when they want, but in your line of sight when out in public parks etc. Don't read too much and get too upset about paedophiles because you really can't do a lot to change anything. But to answer your question, yes, it leaves the victim being the one to 'prove' they haven't performed sexual acts when they were children. However, they can take photos of clothed children and impose them on naked children as well, so being dressed is no guarantee either. I shouldn't have said anything as people worrying doesn't actually change things - I was just upset by the comment that it doesn't matter if a paedophile is watching or not...

[SkylineDrifter]

Well said amberleaf. My children didn't run about the beach naked, but they did in our own garden, and in the house.

And as far as the huge majority on here who are quite happy to have them run around naked in public - personally I think you're just trying to sound all modern and groovy, and wanting to fit in.

Please go ahead and pull me ribbons for my remark, as is normal on Mumsnet - I won't be returning to the thread.

[brassband]

my gut feeling is that it's a bit common.Can't justify it rationally but that would be my first thought

[frogetyfrog]

Chipping - thats terrible and not something I would ever ever have thought. Is it possible an innocent child could be accused of abusing another just due to photoshop work of photographs. Does that really happen.

And I think you are right to tell - I always think it best to be aware. I dont let my children out of my sight generally, but maybe I am still a little naive.

[LadyBiscuit]

amberleaf - like other forms of sexual abuse, most children are abused by people they know. Who presumably rarely see them naked.

I think by saying it's ok for paedophiles to look at your children clothed (well not okay, but better), you're capitulating to the idea that your children's bodies are sexual. And they really aren't. But you're allowing them to become sexualised, by letting the very small minority of people who find young children sexually exciting, dictate to you what your children can and can't do.

I can't stop anyone from having sexual fantasies about my children. I can stop them from preventing my children from enjoying their lives as the innocents they are though.

[formerdiva]

YANBU. You sound like a sensible mother who's just getting on with letting children be children.

I've got some sympathy with those who are concerned about peados - I guess that's a huge fear for all of us, and we all choose to deal with it in different ways. However, very little sympathy for those who talk about a 5yo understanding "modesty" and "dignity". What is this - Victorian Britain?

[ChippingIn]

FrogetyFrog no, it's not really about them proving that they didn't abuse another child, it's more 'proving' that the photo where it 'appears' they are engaged in a sexual act with an adult or group of children isn't actually them. That it's a fabrication for the titilation of pervs. Please stop worrying about it, there is not a lot you can do to change it :( and anything you do do, is to the detriment of your children doing the things they do now.

Probabaly the best post on this thread is this one...

^LadyBiscuit Wed 08-Sep-10 21:27:59
... I can't stop anyone from having sexual fantasies about my children. I can stop them from preventing my children from enjoying their lives as the innocents they are^