to think that unless you spend £££, houses in the UK are not very functional??

[PussinJimmyChoos]

Seriously...what is it with houses in this bloody country (and yes, I am English!)...they are so NOT designed for family life....poxy pokey 3rd bedrooms, kitchens you can't swing a cat in, only one bathroom in most houses and no space for entertaining....

It pisses me off!! Struggling with space in our house atm and just thinking that if a bit more thought went into the design of it, it wouldn't be as much of an issue

And why are so many new builds so small?!!!!

Expat - Yes it's ridiculous that there is VAT releief on self-build but not for modernisation.

Agree new build houses in the UK are generally pretty ropey - thin walls, too small, no garden etc etc - and a 10 year guarentee, like that's a good thing! I'd want a house that'd last more than 10 years! Which is why I live in a 2 bed Victorian terrace cottage - has stood for over 100 years and still going strong. There's three of us, so that's plenty of room. Bathroom downstairs - which is great. DH gets up 5.30 for work and doesn't wake me or DD by clumping around in the shower . Our house is easy to heat, and we have a low mortgage. People always asking why we don't move. We could get somewhere bigger - but why waste money? How much space do you really need to live in? My DH was one of 7 chidren brought up in a 2 bed flat in Holland - now that's overcrowding!!

That's ridiculous! So in other words, getting back to the thread title, she's right: you have to have ££££ to get something decent/functional (excepting some who have ex-council homes, but then there are those who say their council house was crummy).

Modernisation doesn't seem to matter to many (as apparently they were buying regardless) and for others it's out of their price range entirely.

It's peculiar.

I want one of these:
fjordhus

Old houses aren't functional now because needs have changed. To update plumbing in all the housing stock over a certain age would be £££££££. So we make do.

Storage: we make do. We have hundreds of times more useless stuff than previous generations and we keep buying more. I'm sure there's a compromise to be made there.

Self-building costs less and could help loads of us who aren't made of money. But land is expensive and the building trade is riddled with shysters. Not an attractive option.

Newer houses are (here anyway) largely set in estates on the edge of town with a massive Tesco and bugger all else. You have to drive. Maybe there's nothing for kids (cycle tracks etc), just a rather forlorn toddler swing set on the edge of a field. Your neighbours might be dull as all feck, it's a risk. The one 'executive home' mini-estate I know about is a hotbed of gossip, largely about who has done what to their identikit house. I'd gladly sacrifice double glazing and a mixer tap to not live in a place like that.

UnePrune, you've said it. Our house in the north, which we may one day live in, would cost around two hundred thousand pounds to get to the level of comfort we enjoy in this little but comfortable cottage. I just don't see how we will be able to afford this. The other house is very old and large and beautiful, with wonderful gardens. But the bathrooms are ghastly and the kitchen makes me shudder. My in-laws live in the house and think it's just fine. So they're happy and we're happy.

And Expat, you are right about the mindset.I think my inlaws think a bit of cold is good for the moral fibre. Some of their friends once vetoed a boarding school for their daughters because it had central heating, and this was considered unhealthy. This was thirty years ago, but even so...

In 1994, one of the Oxford colleges opened a big graduate student accommodation block. The carpet was plush, the curtains were beautifully made, the doors and woodwork were solid oak. It had ethernet connection (pretty nifty back then) and double glazing and solid furniture, comfortable beds etc.

All the rooms were en suite, but none of the bathrooms had showers because they were considered unnecessary .

I know what you mean about people putting up with cold etc.

DH will not have double glazing put in because it looks crap and we have sash windows so it's £££ to do in that style. I have tried and tried to tell him how great it would be not to shiver in winter but he doesn't feel it.

Having said that, I'd not have a fitted kitchen just for convenience, it's just not my thing. And taps don't bother me one way or the other. Most mixer taps look naffola in the extreme (unless you spend £££).

expat I'd love a fjordhus! No idea how much they cost though. I know the Huffhaus ones are massively expensive... there are two overlooking Dulwich Park, and every time I take DD there I look at them and dream. Although actually I think the fjordhus looks a bit friendlier.

Now to find a plot of land we can afford

In desperation I have ordered perspex panes for some of our windows this year to try and save some pennies... It will look awful but we can take it down quickly if we feel we have to, when people visit.

'I think my inlaws think a bit of cold is good for the moral fibre. Some of their friends once vetoed a boarding school for their daughters because it had central heating, and this was considered unhealthy. This was thirty years ago, but even so..'

When it's really been shown to shorten lives. Ach, well, all dinosaurs went extinct eventually :o.

I've heard Hell is a cold place, but personally, I can think of much funner things to waste money on than a modicum of heat in an inefficient home (not to mention the environmental implications).

Fair enough if people want to freeze in the dark, I mean, that's what Amish country is for.

Still don't think there should be VAT on modernising or upgrading homes, from an environmental point of view it's long-term less costly.

I like the fjordhus with solar panels. :)

The VAT is because you pay for a service, I presume - when you could save money by doing it yourself. (Milling the timber, casting the pipes, etc )

yep, and then doing all the welding, wiring, fitting - other stuff you're supposed to be licensed to do for very good reasons!

I know, expat; being cold is dreadfully bad for you. Perhaps I should suggest a winter holiday to Amish country for them!

"DH has a degree and a masters and the plumber who did our central heating and the builder who did our bathroom - can safely say they earned more than DH and did not have to do night shifts, on call or holidays"

So true. My mom, a doctor in the US, says if she had to do it all over again, she's train to be a plumber. Her and her van and a mobile phone. The insurance is lower too

On 'The World's Squarest Teens', the Amish were looking like they were friends of the evening fire, abride! :)

I do know people who've gone and got certified so they can do their own stuff (electrics and gas plumbing, respectively). It's not hard to do but who has the time?

The man I knew who did that is retired. Very comfortably. But his old piece of shite house needed a lot of work.

He had the time and means to also become a certified skipper after all that, too.

Yes one retired - did it for some complicated Daily Mail induced anger spasm about Europe.
One a f/t gp [shocked] He is tight as tight.

Most tight people I know can tap unbelievably vast sources of energy if they think there's a bob or two in it for them to save.

Never a truer word, expat.
[generous but lazy]

I've known, personally, several people who have gone to absolutely heroic measures in the name of their own meaness. It really is mindboggling to slackers like me. And amusing in the way it can be amusing to watch a hamster run hell for leather on a wheel to nowhere. There are nae pockets in a shroud!

"The VAT is because you pay for a service, I presume - when you could save money by doing it yourself."

• I thought it was illegal to do electrical work now unless you are a qualified electrician?

The VAT is because we pay consumption tax in this country. The only logic to what is or isn't VATable is to encourage/dicourage spending in one area or another or because it's politically expediant.