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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not want to take my young DC to visit DH's parents abroad?

70 replies

meettheparents · 30/08/2010 18:52

DH's folks live abroad - namechanged and don't want to out myself so wont say where but its culturally very different to the UK with not much infrastructure.

We have 1 pre-school DS and another one on the way soon. We have visited them once with DS but only for 1 week and we stayed in a hotel in a local holiday destination, so it was just PIL and DHs siblings, not the whole extended family!!! This was fine, as I felt it was on our terms and I could retreat to my hotel room with DS when it was all getting a bit much for him.

We haven't been to visit since and DH is understandably homesick.

He wants to visit as soon as possible after the new baby arrives (3 months or so...) which I am not happy about for so many (perhaps irrational) reasons which I will list.

Please help me to see if IABU!!!!!!!

  1. Baby will not have had all its injections and will not be able to have the additional injections recommended for this region (too young).
  1. We will have to stay with family (due to £) and therefore will have nowhere to go when it all becomes too much.
  1. People smoke in front of children (it is normal) even inside in enclosed spaces. I would not be able to stand this.
  1. People chew on khat as a passtime which is actually a anphetamine like stimulant and I have seen people giving a little bit to children as well. Mu DHs cousins do this all day long and you can see it in their eyes. I would not want my DC to witness this but it is a part of their culture and I would feel very uncomfortable asking them not to.
  1. I feel it will cause a lot of strain on mine and DHs relationship for silly little things. These would not have bothered me pre-DC but now I am a mother they have become and issue.
  1. We can't afford to rent a car so we will have to borrow one from DHs brother. The car won't be properly maintained etc and I will worry that this is not safe for my DC to travel in. Again happy to travel like this pre-DC but not now. We will need a car to travel around visiting people. A looooootttt of people die in RTA in this country as roads are very poorly maintained and cars do not have to pass a raodworthy test or anything.
  1. I would not be able to let my DC out of my sight for a second due to my paranoia of risk of kidnapping. I would not even feel comfortable letting DH take DS off on his own as I don't think he realises the risk (my DS is very white skinned and this is a black country).
  1. My DH will want to go out with his mates etc which I don't object to at all, but I will be left with 2 children in somebody elses house. It was fine when we were in a hotel last time.

That sums it up. Thank you for reading all this - very long I know. I am working myself into such a state about it!!!!!

So AIBU to not want to go? Should I suggest DH goes alone? It will mean we don't go on a "family" holiday together if he does as we won't have the money and he won't have the leave from work. DS hardly sees him as it is as he works shifts so I am reluctant not to stay together and he wants his family to see the DC which I do understand.

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 30/08/2010 21:08

I'm the overseas national myself. But come from an English-speaking Western nation and there's no need for jabs. DH loves to see my family! It's like a luxurious holiday there in his opinion.

But the no jabs/malaria thing is just too big a risk for you to take.

Isetan · 30/08/2010 22:04

I think its about time you saw it from his point of view. He misses his family and friends, the smells, the old haunts and yeah nostalgia is sometimes rose tinted.

You say that you had gone previously with your first child and that you stayed in a resort and that was on "our" terms, it sounds like it was more on your terms and because of this he missed out on seeing his extended family. If I were your DH I would be seriously pissed, travelling all that way for just one week and then not seeing as many people as I wanted. Try and imagine what his family felt and maybe him, they haven't seen him for ages and and when he does come over he stays in some poncey resort miles away.

You have small children and you're concerned about their safety, thats natural but shielding them from all things {insert country here} is a disservice to them.

  1. Baby will not have had all its injections and will not be able to have the additional injections recommended for this region (too young).

Wait till baby has had its jabs.

  1. We will have to stay with family (due to £) and therefore will have nowhere to go when it all becomes too much.

You go every 3 or 4 years FFs, it sounds like you have made up your mind that you are not going to like it. Don't view it as a holiday in the slob out by the pool sense view it as DH spending time with his family and as a getting to know experience for you.

  1. People smoke in front of children (it is normal) even inside in enclosed spaces. I would not be able to stand this.

People smoke in front of children here, ask politely and if they refuse, move your children to a non-smoky area.

  1. People chew on khat as a passtime which is actually a anphetamine like stimulant and I have seen people giving a little bit to children as well. Mu DHs cousins do this all day long and you can see it in their eyes. I would not want my DC to witness this but it is a part of their culture and I would feel very uncomfortable asking them not to.

Yuk I remember those red stained walls where people would spit it out. I wouldn't want this either and I would damn well insist that my children would not be given it and if they tried I would let them know that I would get all mother bear on their ass Angry.

  1. I feel it will cause a lot of strain on mine and DHs relationship for silly little things. These would not have bothered me pre-DC but now I am a mother they have become and issue.

Not enough info here but complaining about spending time with his family in his country of birth doesn't sound like its going to help your relationship much.

  1. We can't afford to rent a car so we will have to borrow one from DHs brother. The car won't be properly maintained etc and I will worry that this is not safe for my DC to travel in. Again happy to travel like this pre-DC but not now. We will need a car to travel around visiting people. A looooootttt of people die in RTA in this country as roads are very poorly maintained and cars do not have to pass a raodworthy test or anything.

Start saving for the hire car now, encourage him to give something up and you do the same and use the money saved from these vices/ luxuries.

  1. I would not be able to let my DC out of my sight for a second due to my paranoia of risk of kidnapping. I would not even feel comfortable letting DH take DS off on his own as I don't think he realises the risk (my DS is very white skinned and this is a black country).

Don't know which country we are talking about so your concerns could be totally legitimate but I know that when 7/7 happen ex MIL didn't want me anywhere near London and I could see that non-natives would understandably see it differently than me.

  1. My DH will want to go out with his mates etc which I don't object to at all, but I will be left with 2 children in somebody elses house. It was fine when we were in a hotel last time.

What are we talking here, one or two weeks? He hasn't seen his family and friends in 4 years and your gonna find 14 days tough?

I understand the anxiety especially when you have young children but after reading your post I have a feeling that you just don't want to go and that your legitimate concerns are being used as a not so subtle cover for this glaring fact.

The fact is that you married and had children with someone from a different culture and country of origin and IMO you are being somewhat unreasonable. Where he came from has contributed greatly to the man you fell for and is part of your children's heritage, show your appreciation of that and compromise. Go after baby has all its jabs and insist that car seats are used when you are there, start saving for a car hire and let him hang out with his mates for a night or three.

Showing your willingness to embrace his culture and family will earn you a boat load of brownie points and will encourage pride in your DCs dual heritage.

I have done a fair bit of travelling in my time and I can't wait for DD to experience different cultures close-up and in person.

EricNorthmansmistress · 30/08/2010 22:20

YABU
they are his family, it is his culture. You married him and have to put your english judgements at the door over some things (NOT all things). My DH is not EU and we visit regularly. I have to say it's easier for me as I share a common language with his family and get on very well with his mum and sisters but - couldn't you, if you gave it a try? We took DS to see them when he was 7 weeks old and it was mostly fine. A little trying at times but ok.

I'll answer your points in order -

  1. Baby will not have had all its injections and will not be able to have the additional injections recommended for this region (too young). Are you sure? My DS had his age appropriate jabs plus the BCG at 6 weeks.
  1. We will have to stay with family (due to £) and therefore will have nowhere to go when it all becomes too much. Surely you can discuss with DH that you might want to go out on day trips/out to dinner etc? Have a 'code word' or phrase for when you need a break. My DH can tell when I've had enough and takes me out for a bit. But then I trust my ILs to babysit...
  1. People smoke in front of children (it is normal) even inside in enclosed spaces. I would not be able to stand this. Me neither. My DH now asks people not to smoke around DS.
  1. People chew on khat as a passtime which is actually a anphetamine like stimulant and I have seen people giving a little bit to children as well. Mu DHs cousins do this all day long and you can see it in their eyes. I would not want my DC to witness this but it is a part of their culture and I would feel very uncomfortable asking them not to. All the men smoke kif (cannabis) there. It's not ideal but it's part of the culture. As long as your DC is not being given it then what is it going to do?
  1. I feel it will cause a lot of strain on mine and DHs relationship for silly little things. These would not have bothered me pre-DC but now I am a mother they have become and issue. ....?
  1. We can't afford to rent a car so we will have to borrow one from DHs brother. The car won't be properly maintained etc and I will worry that this is not safe for my DC to travel in. Again happy to travel like this pre-DC but not now. We will need a car to travel around visiting people. A looooootttt of people die in RTA in this country as roads are very poorly maintained and cars do not have to pass a raodworthy test or anything. As long as you have a proper fitting car seat and drive very carefully you are at minimal risk.
  1. I would not be able to let my DC out of my sight for a second due to my paranoia of risk of kidnapping. I would not even feel comfortable letting DH take DS off on his own as I don't think he realises the risk (my DS is very white skinned and this is a black country). My DS is pale skinned and this has literally never occured to me. Are you sure this is likely, or is it a product of your anxious imagination?
  1. My DH will want to go out with his mates etc which I don't object to at all, but I will be left with 2 children in somebody elses house. It was fine when we were in a hotel last time. Fair enough, if you aren't comfortable with his family. But in order to get comfortable, you need to spend time with them. Can you agree one night out, one in, or one out with you?

Can you cut it a bit shorter? 10 days might seem more manageable. You really do need to try to make this work - otherwise I can't see how you are not going to make him feel like his family and culture is not important. I know it can be difficult to balance but it's really not fair to prioritise your culture over his.

Katey1010 · 30/08/2010 22:25

I'm not in my country of origin and feel very homesick so I know where your DH is coming from. IMO the "drug-taking" is a little overstated. People drink in front of children here and no one bats an eyelid. In some cultures this would be much worse than chewing khat.

The kidnapping risk is scary but you can manage some of that risk. Be with locals and take precautions.

On the other hand, the disease risk is a problem. I have had a couple of scary tropical diseases and I would not want my 3 month old to be exposed. I took lots of precautions (jabs, repellent etc.) and still ended up in hospital. The baby will not have a local's immunity or be able to have jabs (and/or meds for malaria/dengue).

I think people are right to say you need to consider DH's feelings and also accept that he is from a different place/culture. Find out whn the health risks diminish (jabs can be had, anti-malarials taken, DEET used) and go from there. It will give you time to save for a rental car. DH can go now and see his very missed loved ones...

EricNorthmansmistress · 30/08/2010 22:29

Having read that malaria is a risk, I would agree with Katey above. Wait til the baby can be immunised and then suck it up.

moondog · 30/08/2010 22:31

You're being ridiculous and selfish and over exaggerating the risks.
Peopel from all over the globe have children. Amazing isn't it?

Take a car seat.
Give him some slack.
Khat. So what? Is it any different from watching people tussle with the Jacob's Creek.

It's not all about you.

BabyGiraffes · 30/08/2010 22:47

moondog I find your post quite strong... Of course it's not about the OP, it's about the health and safety of very young children. I took my dd1 abroad when she was a few months old, only over to the continent, and she had three quite awful heavy colds in four weeks... and I felt guilty for exposing her to 'foreign' (to her) viruses - and we are talking Europe here. God knows how I would have felt exposing my precious dcs to very serious and potentiall fatal health threats.
I think you are a bit OTT in your post, especially when the OP is pregnant and clearly worried.

moondog · 30/08/2010 22:48

Nonsense.
I took my kids to very remote places from the age of 12 weeks. Millions of people have babies safely all over the world.

globalmom · 30/08/2010 22:50

While I do not think YABU, I think it would be good to try to consider how you could make it into a trip you could tolerate. My DH is also from a developing country and we have been there with our DS when he was only 6 months old. We stayed for 2 and a half weeks at the family home, during which time I rarely ventured outside of the yard, and every time we drove anywhere we were not able to use a carseat, though we brought one, due to fact that the only type of vehicle that was available to use (for financial reasons) could not accomodate it.

It was not the most fun time for me, but I DO NOT regret the trip at all, and would do it again in a second (and we will), though there are some things I might do differently, like shortening the length of time we stayed.

This place is where your children come from,though they live here now, and I think it is very important for children to connect with their roots, and for their families abroad to be given the opportunity to get to know them. I have a precious photo of my son sitting under the mango tree in the backyard as his great grandfather fed him a mango - priceless. I think it is also an opportunity for you to bond more with your partners family and to understand him better by knowing where he comes from (I realise you have been before, but each time I go to DH's home I understand more and more). I get along well with my PILs (though there are a lot of other relatives at the family home!). If this is not the case for you, that will of course make it a more uncomfortable trip.

Re safety: Things like car-jacking are unlikely to pose a significant threat. Disease is something to be concerned with, but as long as you take proper precautions, should not be an issue. At six months, my son had received several rounds of shots. No, he couldn't have those that would have been required as an adult, but as long as you are not in the jungle and you have bottled water to drink, you should be fine. DS was old enough for anti-malarials. If you need these, that might be the key - to ensure your baby is old enough (really goes by weight moreso than age, my DS was a fatty). I had started weaning my son when we went, which was my biggest concern, but was actually no problem with some milton. For general cleanliness, ordinary running water (even though non-potable) and soap work just fine.

I prob would have felt 3 months is a bit young and wait a little longer, but really think under 1 is fine. However, if you breastfeed I'm pretty sure your LO is protected by your antibodies past three months (please double-check that though!).

Plane ride was easy peasy. My DS has had 3 longh haul trips at age 14 months, never really had a problem on any of them.

It can be overwhelming, but if it is possible to have your own room in the house that no one else can come into that helps.

We never get sent anything, and skpye with them would be a laugh (ummm...I only managed to check e-mail twice in two and a half weeks there), we always have to be the ones to call, etc., but we do get the love, and that is very valuable.

Best of luck making a decision, and if you decide to go, I've got a suitcase full of more specific advice to share if you are interested that I won't bore you with now.

Maybee · 30/08/2010 22:57

YANBU,
By all means consider dhs feelings but if you've just had a baby you'll be stressed out anyway. Its trying enough looking after a child and a baby at home never mind in a place where you will have to justify getting carseats, not exposing dc to smoke etc. Let dh go alone and go when dc are older and more robust. I think you're being judged harshly here I'd feel exactly the same. My ds went home on hols this year with our eldest ds while I stayed here with the tots. He comes from a country with a fab infrastructure but I could not face the travelling and all the visiting we have to do when we go there. Also staying with inlaws puts a huge strain on our relationship so I think it is a tough one.
Sometimes you actually do have to put yourself and newborn baby first!

LittleMissHissyFit · 31/08/2010 00:05

wow, some of you live in utter cloud cuckoo land. Really. Angry

I lived in flaming Alexandria, Egypt next to the blooming library, la di bloody dah... and i had to watch my ds like a hawk. We were followed, watched, photographed every time i left my jailcell flat. Kids are abducted there all the time. Smoking is everywhere, dc have no health and safety regulations to protect them. Cars often don't have seat belts, so using car seats not usually possible.

I'm guessing Alex is a heck of a lot more 'developed' than where op is looking at going.

Op, there is plenty of time for you to take the dc over, when they can be immunised, be easier to entertain, be more mobile and therefore, it'll not all be down to you.

If dh needs and wants to see his family, then he absolutely should go. For your dc however, it's a different situation entirely. without proper immunisation, for the sake of a trip your baby won't even register, it's just not worth the risk.

Add to this the other issues you describe, whether accurate or as has been inferred on here Hmm over-egged, it'll put you on edge the entire time, which potentially will impact on the trip for everyone, and perhaps cause problems that are not so easily resolved.

He needs to go home, he'll enjoy it all so much more without the responsibility of worrying about you, your dc and the safety of the baby.

Take a rain check on this trip, go on the next one.

meettheparents · 02/09/2010 09:50

Update:

DH and I had a talk last night and this is what we have decided:

DH will go back home for 10 days about 3 months after the baby is born (his AL is allocated so dates are fixed) this will leave a few days left before he has to go back to work to spend some family time with me and DC either at home or perhaps go somewhere depending on £.

We will all go again for a fortnight next year when baby will be about 15 months (again AL is allocated and you can't change it to this would be the soonest we'd be able to go) to the a tourist resort and we will pay for PIL to meet us there and stay in the resort with us to spend some quality time together. Other family are all reasonaly well off (they go on holiday abroad) so if they can get the time off work they could join us for a few days.

Hopefully we will have enough time to save up for this as we're talking mega bucks for the 4 of us plus another hotel room for PIL but we have agreed to set aside some money each month.

Thank you to everyone for their advice!

OP posts:
maddy68 · 02/09/2010 10:53

YABU
You accepted his culture when you married him, they are his children as well.
Just because they see people chewing chat doesn't mean they will become heroin addicts. Its GOOD for children to travel, see new cultures, meet their family.

I took my children (the youngest was 3 months) to a third world country, in fact they have extensively travelled all their lives (I am a hippy at heart I reckon lol)

It opened their minds, and at the end of the day they are staying with family which is NICE!

Your kids will be fine.

Weta · 02/09/2010 11:12

Meettheparents, I have just read through this thread and I think your solution sounds excellent. Well done for working it through together! Maybe when the kids are a bit older you'll feel more able to face the visit to where his family actually live.

pescatore · 02/09/2010 15:37

OP, I wanted to share my experiences with you. My parents are Indian and took me back to rural northern India in the 1970s, starting when I was three. We usually stayed around 2 months each time and went every 2-3 years. I had cholera and tetanus jabs but no malaria tabs each time. My mum made sure I didn't drink any unboiled water or eat any food outside the house. I was still sick with stomach upsets and chest infections loads of the time. I remember hanging around in cars with no seatbelts and crossing dangerous roads. Also going helmetless through the middle of a medium size city on a motorbike at 40mph when I was a teenager.

HOWEVER, I still think this was one of the best things of my childhood. I grew up in a place with not many Indians (ie not the UK!) and no family there apart from my parents. Without our trips to India, I would have had no link to their home, my heritage or my family, my grandma in particular. I speak a basic level second language as a result and also have lots of experiences city children didn't have - making gum from wheat sheaves, walking in the high mountains, living in a house with no hot water, using a real mortar and pestle to make food....

My mum stressed out loads when we were in India and never let me go anywhere alone and I suspect you'll be the same. But I think it's likely that your trips will be some of the most memorable of your childrens' lives.

meettheparents · 02/09/2010 17:26

Thank you everyone has replied. We have worked out our solution for the next couple of years but who knows after that? We don't plan on having any more children so no more young babies to worry about!

We won't have enough money to go every year pescatore and definately not for 2 months at a time (are your parents teachers?) but I really hope as the children get older things will become easier and I will chill out a bit more!!!!

I am glad DH and I have come to a solution that we are both happy about and I am glad that a lot of people have taken the time to come and post their thoughts on here so I can think more about DH's point of view.

OP posts:
marcopront · 02/09/2010 18:04

I know you have decided but one thing to bear in mind, if you are breastfeeding exclusively it will be much easier with the baby at 3 months. You will not need to worry about food for the baby and she will get immunity from you. Also it is much easier to fly long haul with a 3 month old than a 15 month old.

Another thought about the kidnapping. If you are living with locals away from the tourist area I would have thought the risk would be lower than where tourists hang out. It is not worth the kidnappers looking for white children where you will be as there normally won't be any and everyone will know who they are.

For the record my daughter was born in a developing country, where her Dad is from and has lived in two other developing countries. She has survived.

Starbuck999 · 02/09/2010 18:13

I agree with expat. Surely when considering whether to marry and have children with someone who originates from a country like the one you are describing and who obviouisly is very close to his family, at some point you thought about and discussed visiting said country with the kids in the furutre?

YANBU to not want to go. There is no way I would expose my children to the drug taking, the not having injections and smoking in the house, not to mention the dangerous car. Kidnapping? English tourists kids would (I'd assume) be a good option for kidnappers, no?

I think you'd be mad to let your kids go there, it sounds like an absolute hell pit and why on Earth would you want to put your children in danger. You DH lives in Enland, he must know why you feel this way and why you don't want to risk your childrens safety. Especially a 3mth old baby!!! Seriously, do not go, your DH will have to get over it and either go alone or invite his family to stay with you.

What country is it? I really doubt you'll out yourself by naming a country.

EricNorthmansmistress · 02/09/2010 18:25

I think you'd be mad to let your kids go there, it sounds like an absolute hell pit and why on Earth would you want to put your children in danger.

Jeez, how narrow minded is that????

NestaFiesta · 03/09/2010 16:01

Meetheparents, When I read the title of your post I thought "well I took DS1 to France at 3 months.." then I read the rest of your post and I have to say YANBU at all. No way would I take my children there out of politeness to my in laws when you could be risking their welfare.

I would say two solutions:

  1. hotel again when you can afford it
  2. Pay the PIls airfares only and invite them over instead.

If the FO is urging caution, then just don't go. Maybe when the DCs are older you can look at things again and review your decision.

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