X HUSB ENFORCING PREVIOUS COURT ORDER AFTER HE ABDUCTED OUR SON

[Happymuppet]

I left my now x husb about 4 yrs ago with our son. I gave him all the access he wanted then one weekend he never returned my son and kept him for 6 weeks getting an order on me preventing me from getting him back (he lied in order to do this - he later confessed). Please bear in mind we lived 100 miles apart when i left - i was not allowed to see my son for these 6 weeks. To cut this story very short after several court cases i won and got full custody and he got access etc. The court order states that he cannot take the child out of the country unless i agree - i dont! I meet him every other weekend he has him at our halfway point, i give him all his requests other than this trip abroad. He has refussed to help with any additional costs with his son eg swim lessons,school clothes etc says thats what he pays his £198 a month maintenance for! I recieved a letter from the court on friday saying i am to attend court. He wants some enforcement and direction on the previous order thats all the letter states. I went to see my solicitor today at a cost to me of £400, she said after getting in touch with the courts that he wants me to travel more to meet him half way for collection,and wants to take him abroad, and also wants me to pay for his court fees. If i want a solicitor to come to court with me its going to cost me over £1000. I am a single parent, not in any relationship, i work part time around school hours, rent a house, and earn about £10,000 a year. I dont get legal aid! Do i give in and give him what he wants to get him off my back? Despite the fact that 4 yrs ago he said that he could get him out of the country before i even knew he was gone. He bullies me,sends abbusive text if i dont give in and makes my life a missery. Someone help me. He is on an income of about £40,000, he lives down south about 100 miles away with a woman who has her own company, but also she has a 14 yr old and a young baby. I have been told that although these are not his that cause he is supporting them my son comes last and they take him supporting her kids into account, and thats where the financial balance between us will be. He has just bought a new motorbike and an Audi, so financially who is better off!?DO i get the money to have a solicitor in court? Despite her telling me that the court will allow him to take my son on holiday, and will give him basically what he wants to be fair. What can i do? I have sobbed for hours and hours. He has finally broken me.

You can go to court with all of this information and get an emergency Prohibative Steps Order this prevents your ex from picking your children up from school and states the exact times he is allowed to have him

Show someone the abusive texts a police officer etc and start a harrasment case

I have been in this situation for 12 months now luckily I get legal aid but I was given a PSO within 24 hours at an emergency hearing because he tried to take my children from out of my house

He can then oppose the order but it takes time and I am under the impression it costs a lot of money to oppose

I am not an expert this is just from my experience so I hope an expert comes along to let you you know if I am right

PLease dont let him break you because after all I firmly believe that in some of these cases its all about breaking us with no thought about how this will effect our children

YANBU, and I appreciate you are upset,

I don't think it's reasonable for him to take your son abroad, especially as he's made threats and abducted him previously..

If he's on that salary, then it would be incredibly unreasonable for him to expect you to pay his court fees, that's for sure.

As you have full residency and he has visiting rights, I'd guess that the balance of power would be on your side of things, in any court.

the way he's bullying you and abusing you is not on... this is the first thing you need to deal with and I would take fairly drastic steps (like report it to the police, especially if there are threats involved).

BUT....

"He has refused to help with any additional costs with his son eg swim lessons,school clothes etc says thats what he pays his £198 a month maintenance for! "

He's right.

"he wants me to travel more to meet him half way for collection" he's being fair here - if it was you that moved away, then you should expect fairly to take some of the cost and inconvenience.

"and wants to take him abroad" - this is unreasonable and the court has already ordered him not to without your permission. It's unreasonable as he's already abducted and threatened in the past.

"and also wants me to pay for his court fees" if he's earning £40k this is also unreasonable.

I'm just trying to see the other side of this. Did he feel that he wasn't getting fair access and was that why he didn't return your son? Or was he fighting you for residency all along?

Did he feel (as I would) that you moving 100 miles away was unreasonable? (assuming you did from your original post)

You said you 'gave him' the access he requested - I wonder if you stared from a 50/50 standpoint and went from there?

I was so hoping not to be a thread killer here so I will shamelessly bump this

OH i know all about Prohibited steps orders -he took one out on me the day i was going to court to get my son back!

He is not allowed to collect him from school. We do have agreed times for return and collection times etc but he always tries to change it and if i dont comply lately then thats when it starts.

He seems to get a kick out of just agrivating me. He has never once thought about our son. He will often say what will *n think when i tell him what a bitch you have been when i tell him you wont let him on holiday with his dad. OR we need to get the story straight about what we tell our son with what happened so i (the x) dosnt look bad. (the truth is what i will tell my son when he is old enough - that his father took him away from me,kept him for 6 weeks and even put him in a new school)!

All i did was leave my x husb cause i was unhappy.

What was his reason for not returning your son for 6 weeks?

I think in situations like this it is easy to get hung up on the "fairness" of it all - he has a new motorbike, car, supporting gf's children etc, but it will send you round the twist if you analyse it in that way.

I know it's an expense, but the only ones who can decide what is fair is the courts and I think you need to go and see what decision they make and then both of you adhere to it.

"He has refused to help with any additional costs with his son eg swim lessons,school clothes etc says thats what he pays his £198 a month maintenance for! "

Agree with hairytriangle - he is right.

If you only earn £10,000 a year and have a child to support then I am sure you will qualify for legal aid.

The reason that he took my son from me in his words "i did it to get back at you for leaving me".

Is that what someone should do? Take a child from the parent that has been with that child for 4 yrs from the day he was born? And tell the child "you live with daddy now, this is your new school". Is that fair?

I left him and moved 100 miles away because i had nowhere else to go other than to live with my mother! I didnt do this out of spite.

Do not let him take him out of the country, no matter what, I know it is going to hurt a lot financially but he must not be allowed to do this.

Does your son have a passport? If not then apply for one yourself and hold onto to it. If he does then under no circumstances let your ex get hold of it.

Can you arrange handover for a contact centre?

I have already been assessed and i DONT get legal aid - hence the reason for the £400 pay out today.

Well he sounds completely pathetic - what is he, still at school or something?

He used his own son to "get back at you" and then actually admitted this???????????

No, that is not fair at all, and incredibly immature.

Unfortunately as you were married he will have parental responsibility, but I am pretty sure that he has to have your permission to take your ds out of the country. Why does he need to take him out of the country anyway? My ds has never taken his DD out of the country - we always go on holiday in the UK - it's never been a problem.

It sucks but you have to do this through the courts.

If a judge allowed contact after the 'abduction' there must be grounds for believing the father will return the boy in future. I rather take the opposite view to other posters. Why shouldn't he take his son for a holiday? You say that your son is your ex's last priority yet he's fighting you to take him on holiday. If I'm brutally honest you are being overly emotional. Your son has a dad. I know that doesn't suit you but it's a fact.

Bloody hell; I can offer little but my sympathy, the whole thing sounds exhausting. :(

He seems to be only fighting the OP to annoy her, to score points. He can't be trusted, clearly. what a nasty piece of work.

Morloth & pioneer thanks you for some comfort. Luckily i dont think that he does have parental responsibility as the child was born a year before we married. My son was born 2001. He normally collects my son from my house and i meet him half way on the sunday for return or the next time he has him then he returns him back to my house.

I do have my sons passport and i have also contacted the passport office to let them know that he may try get another passport issued and not to let him have one due to suspected abduction - again.

My solicitor appears to believe that he will get mostly what he asks for. And the fact that he took him 4 years ago and kept him from me is in the past. When he took him, it totally devastated my family and i. I couldnt eat for almost 6 weeks. He allowed me a few hours with my son on his 5th birthday and i can still see my sons face and the sadness when i had to take him back, away from his two cousins, grandparents and me his mum. My sister couldnt even get him to smile, i will never forget what he put my son through.

"The reason that he took my son from me in his words "i did it to get back at you for leaving me". Well, that's truly horrible of him.

"Is that what someone should do? Take a child from the parent that has been with that child for 4 yrs from the day he was born? And tell the child "you live with daddy now, this is your new school". Is that fair? " No it's not. but you did take your soon away from him, so there are two sides. I'm not trying to be inflammatory, but it is true.

"I left him and moved 100 miles away because i had nowhere else to go other than to live with my mother! I didnt do this out of spite." Well, that is fair enough, but it must have been really hard for him, and as you moved 100 miles, you should expect to make extra effort for your ex to see his child.

I'm honestly not trying to be inflammatory, but I think you will drive yourself nuts, as someone else said, with putting your own opinion of what's fair forward as the only one.

He isn't punishing you. He just wants to take his son on holiday. That's why your solicitor has said he'll be given permission to do it. it's a reasonable request. It's not about your feelings and definitely not about the feelings of your family, including your sister. All the court will consider is your son's relationship with his mother and father.

Ok thanks for all the support or non support. Some clearly have never had a child taken from them in a painfully bitter way.

It is clear that some are in support of the father and i do understand his needs with his son. Thats why i have given him almost every bit of time he has asked for, and more.

Some of you clearly have never had someone intimidate you on a daily basis with abusive texts,calls etc Tell you that the child you have raised for 9 years will grow up to hate you.

I am sorry that some of you dont understand, i wish i had never done this post now, some of you have actually made me feel worse.

I think he will have parental responsibility as he subsequently married you - someone correct me if I'm wrong though.

I think the worrying thing for me is him saying things like:

"could get him out of the country before i even knew he was gone."

and

"i did it to get back at you for leaving me"

However, this could have just been an extreme reaction to the hurt he felt by having his son taken 100 miles away from him.

He may be pathetic and childish, but like I said I think you need to go through the courts and then accept what they say.

Happymuppet - you need to try to ignore the abusive texts. It is soooo common in situations like this for the parents to use emotional blackmail to try to wear down the other parent.

I hope you don't respond to them as it will just fuel the fire.

It sounds like things are still very raw and bitter between you - have you tried mediation?

If you can one day get to a point where you are both able to be civil, it will make things a lot lot easier for negotiation.

Happymuppet If he is intimidating you on a daily basis with abusive texts go to the police tomorrow and make a complaint and keep complaining every time he does it. If you genuinely feel he is harrassing you and there is still a risk he will keep your son I suspect you will have to demonstrate a current risk as your ex can point to all the times since the abduction that he has brought your son back as agreed. So if he is bullying you and abusing you by text you need to make it a formal police matter.

oh happymuppett I dont't think it's a case of being on his side or on your side.

and I don't think anyone intends to make you feel worse.

It's just that your posts come across as not really acknowledging that the fact that you left, and that will have hurt your ex, that you took your son with you , and that will also have hurt your ex.

There is absolutely no excusing his behaviour subsequently, but I can understand how hard it would have been for him to have had his son taken 100 miles away.

I really genuinely do hope you find a resolution for your and your son's sakes, and that includes for your ex as he is your son's dad.

If it's any consolation, I have been verbally, mentally and physically intimidated and know how awful it is to live with. I have also lived with the threat of a step cheald being moved 200 miles away without warning - thankfully for me and the sc's father it didn't actually happen, but I think I can understand a little of what it is like to at least have the threat of a very beloved child being taken away, and if it's only a 0.99th of the pain he and you have both felt, then I don't wish it on anyone, it was awful.

I think that someone only has to text or call you more than three times in succession without a response for it to constitute harrassment. It is a bit more tricky when you have a child together as there is a valid reason for you needing to be in contact, but if the texts are abusive or contain irrelevant material then it may hold up.

Don't quote me on this as I am neither a police officer nor a lawyer .

I second what hairytriangle said.

I have also been verbally and mentally abused and intimidated for years and I absolutely know how awful it is.

I too hope you can find a resolution.

I dont reply to the texts. That makes him worse and then says things like "so now that your ignoring me i will take it as a yes to the last question etc...

I try to be communicative to him mostly all the time. I always show the niceties when my son is being collected/dropped off etc. He is the one who always makes it awkward. I even have to get my son out of his car when he drops him off as my x wont even get out of the car at times. He will make the drop off as difficult as he possibly can and also prolonges the drop off too. He hangs onto my son for ages telling him how much he misses him and all that. He cant just be a man about it and say ok then son see you soon etc he has to make it a huge situation. The list goes on.

Now, you see, that sounds like what I'd call a man - communicating his feelings to his son!

although some of what you posted earlier about him saying things about you to his son is awful. Parents should never, ever 'dis' the other parent to their children, or bring their children into adult conflict.

"I even have to get my son out of the car" - I don't understand what is so wrong with that?

Perhaps he stays in the car to avoid any awkward confrontation - if you are both out of the car at the same time it could be very awkward - the car is a good barrier.