to think that ADHD/ADD is a load of nonsense?

[Breton1900]

Are we really producing ever more kids with these conditions or do parents simply need to take back control and realise that, at times, all kids can be obnoxious, loud, defiant, restless and fidgety and that strictly enforced rules for behaviour, lots of TLC, and the occasional smack on the bum may be the way forward?

TheShriekingHarpy
Breton1900 (or, if you like, an area in France and a year in history) also makes a couple of references to military history here as does Peter Hitchens extensively in his blog (in the Mail, natch).

Other views don't tally (notwithstanding devil's advocacy) so maybe it's just his number one fan, or a wannabe

MojoLost wrote the following:
?OP, I have not read the entire thread. I don't know if you have explained exactly why you think this condition is an invention of modern times. So, Why do you think this??

That is a perfectly sensible question and I will answer it as best I can, based on my own personal experiences and expressing my own opinions. I stress that my opinions with regard to ADHD are formed by observation. None of my children were ever diagnosed with any form of disorder so my experience is only direct insofar that I work with hundreds of teenagers, many of whom have various medical conditions and far too many of whom have SBS, on a daily basis.

In this thread various contributors, who, presumably have children diagnosed with ADHD, have stated various reasons for this condition including genetics and chemical imbalances in the brain.

Now if this condition is genetic then it follows that it must have been around in previous generations yet there is no evidence that this was the case. We don?t have hundreds of thousands of pensioners suffering from ADHD.

I would also point out that, like KatieStar, I don?t regard the inability to sit still, wait for answers to questions, or pay attention to be genetically inherited disorders. Is it not more likely that within a nuclear family other members of that family display similar tendencies? The experts tell us that this is the case and it is often the father whose genes are responsible. Again, where is the evidence? Despite millions being invested there has been no positive and verifiable link between any gene or genes and ADHD.

There is also a tendency to confuse matters by word play. Two US doctors have claimed in their best selling book that although ADHD is heritable no one actually inherits ADHD. They argue that ?a person can inherit the proclivity to develop the symptoms of ADHD - a greater susceptibility to ADHD than other people have?. This is disingenuous as evolutionary geneticists have maintained that the idea of genetic predispositions cannot be verified.

These same two doctors then make the following statement:

?For example if a toddler watches too much television that increases the likelihood that the genes predisposing to ADHD will be expressed and the child will develop ADHD. However, if that toddler does not watch television, he may never develop ADHD, even though he inherited the genes that predispose him to it.? [see Hallowell, E.M., & Ratey, J.J. (2005) Delivered from Distraction ( p. 149) ]

This is genetic nonsense.

Then we come to the claims about bio-chemical imbalances in the brain. This implies a measurable state of biochemical imbalance exists. Yet again, where is the evidence? As I understand it the biochemistry of the brain and the central nervous system is in a constant state of flux and even the biochemistry of emotion varies from person to person. So what does it mean when parents are told that their child has a ?chemical imbalance?? Relative to what exactly?

Certainly plenty of children appear to have some very serious problems today but I am not sure that these can be lumped under the general heading of ADHD. A contributor yesterday, who works as a consultant psychiatrist, mentioned other factors that need to be considered. I would add that in the last 25-30 years we have raised a generation of children who are less active than their parents or grandparents, eat more ?junk? food than their parents or grandparents, and who spend inordinate amounts of time watching screens. Again, I can only speak from my own experiences but it is almost impossible to find a child in a school today that does not have either their own television and/or computer/game console in their bedroom.

To that list I would also add changes in parenting. Yes I realise that plenty on here will start making silly comments about my age but parenting styles have changed dramatically in the last 30 years and many of the influences have come from the USA.

In the last 30 years or so parenting styles have become ever more ?child centred?. I accept I am discussing generalities and not specifics but we are increasingly encouraged to regard our children as the most wonderful things ever to happen to us. These same children are viewed as fragile and tender little creatures that must be nurtured and cosseted and never upset in any way or have their personal esteem or personal worth undermined. At the same time we have also seen a growing tendency to various childhood disorders and conditions, many of which are associated with behavioural problems. Problems associated with parenting skills are becoming ever more prevalent and of course publishing and broadcasting have cashed in with a plethora of self-help and guidance books and prime time television programmes devoted to this topic!

Running parallel with all the above is an increasingly self-centred and self obsessed society. Now I am not claiming these social changes are necessarily linked but it does pose some interesting questions.

The disorder was first noticed back in 1902 and the terminology used to describe the disorder then was, ?Defect of Moral Control.? As time passed, the disorder went by many names until identified as ADD in 1980 and then ADHD in 1987. In 1998, the AMA disclosed that ADHD was one of the best researched neurological disorders so proof indeed does exist.

Riven: Do you actually have a D.Phil in Neurology?

I only ask because you seem to have difficulty understanding reasonably plain written English.

"I would add that in the last 25-30 years we have raised a generation of children who are less active than their parents or grandparents, eat more ?junk? food than their parents or grandparents, and who spend inordinate amounts of time watching screens. Again, I can only speak from my own experiences but it is almost impossible to find a child in a school today that does not have either their own television and/or computer/game console in their bedroom."

Here we go with the popular DM view again.

We walk lots (several miles a day), eat our five a day - sweet stuff is home made fruit and veg based cakes and bakes, on the whole and additives are kept to a minimum. We still have Easter chocolate in the kitchen cupboard and we didn't buy that. DS1 is actually calmed by having the TV on CBeebies, as it's regular, predictable (albeit low volume) noise, but barely stops to actually watch it for more than a couple of minutes an hour. We keep other screen time to short bursts and, guess what, his bedroom is for sleeping in. No more than a few books in his room for entertainment, in case he wakes up early.

So yes, the trend you are quoting is mostly correct, if somewhat exaggerated, but ADHD symptoms can't entirely be blamed on those things.

As for "child centred" parenting, yes, I do parent according to those needs. It's very difficult and results in many a battle, but I am teaching him to make good choices and that some choices, while they might seem more tempting, have not so good outcomes for him. Thanks to autism and ADHD, he is capable of arguing the toss over everything. You can comment that it's raining and he will insist it's sunny, because that's how he wants things to be. You can give him fair warning that in 5 minutes, he will have to finish his current activity and wash his hands for tea, yet he will still throw himself on the ground and scream when the time comes. He'll be disappointed that getting his tea late means a quick, cold bath rather than a long warm one, but he'll do the same thing again and again and again. There's no over-indulgence involved at all. He is so caught up in the moment and his resistance to change that he can't think ahead to the consequences of being late for dinner.

Of course, carry on as you are, putting kids into little boxes that suit you, rather than them. At least my son has a reason for his inflexibility and intransigence. What's your excuse, breton?

Breton, i dont have a phd in fuck all, but i do have google.

Just google history of ADHD FFS, its not rocket science.

While you are perfectly entitled to your opinion, its not actually based on facts.

FACTS

In this day and age, you would think that ADHD has been around forever. The disorder itself has been around for quite some time, but it was only recently that it was given the name Attention Deficit Disorder. Before that, the disorder had various names that changed over the years.

In 1902, there is the first documented disorder relating to impulsiveness. This was in Britain, and the doctor who diagnosed the impulsive disorder was named Dr. Still. He called this disorder "Defect of Moral Control" and he believed that the diagnosed individual had a medical disorder beyond their control.

After this event, the next documentation of similar symptoms was in 1922. Here, the symptoms we associate with ADHD were given the name "Post-Encephalitic Behavior Disorder." What this title means I am not quite sure, but that was the name during this time period.

The next event in the history of ADHD was in 1937, where Dr. Charles Bradley introduced the use of stimulants in children who were hyperactive. I still find it interesting that stimulants were thought of to treat hyperactive children when they were already bouncing off the walls. While it is true that stimulants calm hyperactive kids down, how did someone hypothesize that this would occur? After this, in 1956, Ritalin was introduced as the drug of choice to treat hyperactivity.

In the 1960s, stimulants were used by a wider population. The only symptom that was really documented at this point was hyperactivity. In the early 1960s, the disorder was called "Minimal Brain Dysfunction". At the end of the decade, though, the name of the disorder was changed to "Hyperkinetic Disorder of Childhood."

The next event that occurred in relation of ADHD was that new symptoms were added to the realm of the disorder. Along with hyperactivity, added symptoms were lack of focus and spaceyness associated with impulsiveness. Impulsiveness now included verbal, cognitive and motor impulsiveness.

In 1980, the disorder was given its current name of Attention Deficit Disorder, with or without hyperactivity. This was documented in the DSM-III put out by the American Psychiatric Association. ADD and ADHD were two different diagnoses.

Next, in 1987, ADD was changed to Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. The American Psychiatric Associated noted that this was a medical diagnosis, and not purely psychological. They also noted that ADHD could cause behavioral issues.

In 1996, a new medication called Adderall was approved by the FDA for the treatment of ADHD. After a period of time, it was deemed to be better at treating the disorder since it lasted longer and was easier to come down off of. In 1999, other medications were added to treat ADHD such as Concerta and Focalin. In 2003, Strattera was introduced as the first ADHD medication that was not a stimulant. This drug acted like an antidepressant, but increased the amount of norepinephrine in the brain.

Kind of leaves a gapping big hole in your arguement, doesnt it?

Breton1900, the medical profession in this country recognizes the existence of the conditions you describe, and they do not diagnose lightly.
You have a problem with that? Tough. None of the arguments you make are new, so I doubt they would change anything in the lives of the people involved with the conditions, or in governmental or medical policy.
Your English is totally clear - just really rather boring. Perhaps come back when you actually have something interesting to say?

"Certainly plenty of children appear to have some very serious problems today but I am not sure that these can be lumped under the general heading of ADHD. A contributor yesterday, who works as a consultant psychiatrist, mentioned other factors that need to be considered. I would add that in the last 25-30 years we have raised a generation of children who are less active than their parents or grandparents, eat more ?junk? food than their parents or grandparents, and who spend inordinate amounts of time watching screens. Again, I can only speak from my own experiences but it is almost impossible to find a child in a school today that does not have either their own television and/or computer/game console in their bedroom.

To that list I would also add changes in parenting. Yes I realise that plenty on here will start making silly comments about my age but parenting styles have changed dramatically in the last 30 years and many of the influences have come from the USA. "

Well my Dt's probably eat more junk food than their parents, do not have TV/games consoles in their room, have the same parents, do roughly the same amount of activities as each other, are exposed to the same amount of discipline. Then why does Dt2 have ADD and not DT1? Now Dt1 is inattentive at times, is far more impulsive and explosive, has a temper and is generally more badly behaved than DT2 but there is no way in the world that he has ADHD. DT2 on the other hand is extremely sweet natured , generous and thoughtful and is not impulsive or hyperactive. However he also fully meets the criteria for ADD

Could someone please pass Breton a handkerchief.

Thank you

A handkerchief so she can gag herself with it?

Will a bucket of cold water do?

Claw3. I think you will find that Still regarded these disorders as reflecting moral deficiencies rooted in heredity (the criminal classes and all that) or that they were caused by physical disease.

It was following the pandemic of encephalitis between 1917-26 that severe behavioral disturbances were noticed in many child survivors - including hyperkinesis (a persistently high level of apparently purposeless motor activity).

As I understand it, it was from these observations that the proposition arose that any significant degree of overactivity or impulsivity was caused by underlying brain damage even if any objective evidence of any such damage was absent. This led to the term "minimal brain damage" being employed to identify not only hyperactive children but also those with learning disabilities.

I just knew that Breton would be a teacher. I've met a few teachers with similar views.
What are your qualifications Breton? You have asked Riven a similar question after all.

ADHD has evolved, both in name and classification, since doctor's first started to notice patients with attention related symptoms. It is believed that a British doctor, Dr. George Still, was the first person to recognize and diagnose the condition in 1902. However, he did not call it ADHD, but rather a "Defect of Moral Control" disorder. To the best of my knowledge, the names of the children he described in his papers were not released.

The use of stimulants to treat ADHD was first described in 1937

In two weeks my DD will be a 'school child'. She has no computer, tv, games consoles etc. in her room. Her exposure to computer time is probably less than 2 hours in her lifetime to date, and that time has been spent 'typing' (i.e. I load word & she presses random keys).

In fact the only thing in her bedroom other than books is her tomy baby musical star, which settles her to sleep.

I have ADHD (I am 44) it was diagnosed in adulthood - I do not take medication as years of coping with the condition have equipped me with some pretty good coping strategies. As a child I went back and forth to developmental and educational psychologists whose final diagnosis was "your daughter's brain works differently to other children".

I am like my Dad who could not (and still cannot) sit still and focus. He is not diagnosed with ADHD yet I am certain he has it.

My son was diagnosed when his autism was diagnosed.

I accept your point Breton about the over-medicalization of society (a pity your OP could not have been as rational as some of your other arguments on this thread). I accept that some (as minority of children) are medicated when a parenting group might work better with Mum and/or Dad.

But you seem to be saying ADHD is a rubbish diagnosis and we are crap parents - well just feck off and keep well away from my son in your teaching career - he has enough issues without crappy teachers like you adding to them.

Congratulations Lougle - my son has none of these things in his room either. His computer time is school dictated (he likes a website called Coolmaths4kids).

The lack of these things in his room did not stop the autism or ADHD. He does not settle to sleep easily - I use a weighted blanket in winter which provides the sensory feedback his body craves and it works. Can't use it in summer though.

Just because you restrict use of these things (and good for you) does not mean this is why your DD settles to sleep and does not have ADHD. Some of us also have the same routines and beliefs and our children STILL have ADHD.

The same could be said of Autism ie the cause is unknown, but the symptoms are very real.

Although i would agree that 'bad' parenting, environment, diet etc, etc, could possibly reinforce or aggravate the behaviour. I would not agree that it is the cause of the behaviour.

The encephalitis epidemic was a virus, which attacks the brain and similar symptoms of ADHD were displayed hence the name. Research then progressed and it was re-named.

cornsiLk wrote "What are your qualifications Breton? You have asked Riven a similar question after all."

In point of fact Riven vouchsafed that information yesterday, without any solicitation from me.

This afternoon I asked if she really had a D.Phil in Neurology because she seemed to have difficulty comprehending what I had written. That question was, intentionally, somewhat ironic but as there is no "sarcasm" emoticon I could not make my underlying implication clear.

She has recently corrected me and pointed out it was actually in Neuroscience.