to think leaving school at 16 to go to work isn't such a bad thing

southeastastra · 2010-08-19T13:32:06+00:00

even in these times. i do think sometimes degrees do give students a weird view of the working world.

Portofino · 19/08/2010 14:34

I wanted to go to college at 16 and do a vocational course. That wasn't acceptable apparently and i was bullied into going to Uni. Oh with the benefit of hindsight I would have stood my ground. Uni is not for everyone!

Ryoko · 19/08/2010 14:39

University is the governments way of trying to keep down the unemployment figures IMO.

you are better off going out there and trying to make something of yourself from the start then turning up at McDonalds when you are 20 something with no work experience and a degree in the same subject as 200 other people they have seen that day.

I think employers will think better of you if you start as soon as you can at making your way in life, most people view students as loafers trying to live the life of Rely as long as possible before they have to go out into the real world.

They should cut the number of courses to things you actually need to go to Uni for like law and medicine.

scurryfunge · 19/08/2010 14:40

I will be encouraging DS to stay on after school to do A levels or similar but after that I would prefer him to defer Uni for a number of years until the fees/standards situation changes, if he wants to go at all.

Degrees are two a penny at the moment and not always worth it.

DandyDan · 19/08/2010 14:43

I'd say it was a bad thing at the moment. Better to stay in education as long as you can until the unemployment situation improves.

If there was a training post/apprenticeship available for some technical employment, that might be okay; IMO with the dearth of jobs for people who are struggling the pay the mortgage, it doesn't need a swathe of 16 yr olds in the job market as well, competing for all the jobs out there that don't exist.

bruffin · 19/08/2010 14:44

Is there any jobs out there for 16 years olds? I started work at 16 (1979) and DH was still 15 nowadays our jobs need degrees to do.

sherby · 19/08/2010 14:47

DH and I both left school and got jobs the next week.

DH now a qualified plumber/gas engineer and makes more money than most of the people we know who went to uni.

I work as a breastfeeding supporter and wouldn't have been able to do that without the experience of having and feeding my own children.

Not going to uni has worked out very well for both of us. It wouldn't concern me if the DC didn't want to go to uni as long as they had a plan in place/apprenticeship/volunteer work to do

DinahRod · 19/08/2010 14:50

As long as they can find work and it's not a dead end job, by which I mean there's training or a chance for progression in the future.

I have a number of cousins who left school at 16, one now manages a largish lorry firm having started out a driver; another did some secretarial training and then worked abroad for the FO. Otoh, some members of dh's extended family who left school at 16 are on the bread line, drifting from one unsatisfactory job to another, in between being unemployed.

coraltoes · 19/08/2010 14:53

depends on the kid and the career path he/she envisages for life. Some careers need very high technical qualification, achieved at uni, others are more "learn on the job" places. Both have a key role in society and need candidates...

I massively disagree about the warped view of the working world idea though, infact I dont even think i understand it- how do graduates manifest this?

Deliaskis · 19/08/2010 15:03

I think opportunities for everyone is great, but I agree that university isn't that great an opportunity for everyone, and many would be far better off getting on the employment ladder earlier.

It does also give some people a distorted view of what will happen after. A lot of people graduate assuming they will get a 'graduate' job when in reality unless you go to work for a small number of companies or in very specific sectors, being a graduate is a very small advantage.

I graduated 10 years ago and have since had 4 jobs, none of which required a degree and none all of which had people doing similar level jobs without degrees.

It's not for everyone and it shouldn't be assumed that everyone will be better off for being at university.

D

GrungeBlobPrimpants · 19/08/2010 15:06

Umm. Think I disagree there. Most of my contemporaries who left at 16 to go straight into work (I'm talking about many years ago, mind) tended to have few qualifications and ended up in dead-end jobs.

Those who left school at 16 with some qualifications to do a vocational course did better though. As did those who left at 18.

sherby · 19/08/2010 15:09

but somebody needs to do those 'dead end jobs' if by that you mean you can't progress past a certain point

usualsuspect · 19/08/2010 15:11

Some people are perfectly happy to do a dead end job (whatever that is) as long as it pays the bills ..the country would grind to a halt without shop workers ,cleaners and the like

GrungeBlobPrimpants · 19/08/2010 15:15

You're right Sherby. I think what I'm saying is that if you've got maybe some OK grades/drive/potential you'd be better off either staying in education or doing vocational training for a bit longer

swanandduck · 19/08/2010 15:15

It depends on the individual really. Some people have bags of get up and go and manage to do really well in life without any qualifications. Others need a qualification to get on. Others, as usualsuspect points out, are quite happy to do low skilled work as long as it pays the bills and have other priorities.

BaggedandTagged · 19/08/2010 15:18

I think it's often a good thing, especially if there is some sort of apprenticeship or "learning on the job" element. Often the way to learn a skilled manual job is to do it.

Also as Usualsuspect says, some people dont want a career- they just want a job. Someone's always going to be sweeping the streets, no matter what percentage of the country gets a degree.

I actually wouldn't have anything about the school leaving age being brought back down to 14.

lifeas3plus1 · 19/08/2010 15:21

I left school at 16 and went straight into work at macdonalds. I was there 2 yrs and it seemed pretty straight forward to get a job after that. Employers seemed to like tHe fact that i'd worked there.

I went onto work in a few shops and was manager of a pub by the time I was 21.

I'm a SAHM now (at 24) but when I go back to work I'm hoping my experience will get me back into retail/ customer service quite easily.

Some people will think that retail/customer service is a dead end job but I LOVE working in this field so going to university to do some big degree would have been pointless as I would end up working in a shop/bar/restaurant anyway.

I do intend to go to college and study criminology and psychology but that's more for my own interests. If a job comes of it then great but I will be more than happy spending my working years in customer service.

My brother otoh went straight into college from school and is going to uni in September and cannot get a job full stop. He's been looking since he left school 3 yrs ago, been to interviews and still hasn't got anywhere.

He's starting to lose confidence in himself.

domeafavour · 19/08/2010 15:26

not a bad thing at all, who said it was??!!

willsywoo · 19/08/2010 15:46

Nothing whatsoever wrong with working for a living..not everyone could or even should take 'a'levels and go to uni,all jobs and trades are valuable aspects of society and keep it going.Are we to look down on people whose ambitions are different from our own.My daughter has always had a job since she was 14 and now works as a supervisor for Barclays,eldest ds doing a marine electrician apprenticeship and youngest ds just starting 'a'levels.I would be proud whatever they do....my great uncle was a bin man back when they had to lug heavy metal bins on their backs,he was a lovely man and worked hard all his life to support his family...eldest son has friends at uni with huge debts and no jobs and not alot of prospect of getting one.

EveWasFramed72 · 19/08/2010 15:48

The problem with uni degrees in this country, is...well...this country.

In the US, a degree MEANS something. You get paid more for having qualifications, and if you get more qualifications related to your job, you get more money. The more education you get, the more you make.

Not so here. I just finished my Master's Degree, and though I am very lucky to have found a job in my field straight away, the salary I am being paid would be the same if I had the 'right' GCSEs. My master's degree does not matter at all when it comes to pay. Not only that, but I'm not given any credit for all my years of work prior to my Master's degree.

So, I think in the UK, training for a vocation is far more useful than university.

Ryoko · 19/08/2010 15:56

Well I didn't get a job until I was 28 but then I was never sent to school which put people off "how many GCSEs have you got?" "err none" going to college didn't help "I see yoU have an NVQ5 but you haven't put what A-Levels or GCSEs you have on your CV".

Maybe I should have just lied like everyone else.

coraltoes · 19/08/2010 16:10

they were saying on radio 4 yesterday a graduate vs a non graduate can expect to earn approx £100k more over their lifetime. I found that pretty interesting! pays off a lot of student loans in any case.
Of course this is averaged across industries so may not apply to all of us!

Giddyup · 19/08/2010 16:27

Hmmmm I would be happy for DS to leave school at 18 and get a job if that was what he really wanted... but would prefer him to at least have A levels.

Its easy to apply to uni when ever you like, but to go back and either do A levels as an adult or do an access course is quite a big thing (I speak from experience).

If a child is not at all academic and never will be an modern apprenticeship or similar is a great idea... Having a trade is not something to be sniffed at for either job satisfaction or monetary rewards.

notagrannyyet · 19/08/2010 17:56

I think 16 may be a bit too young. Many will still be only 15 when they finish school.

I was happy for my August born DS to stay on and do two years post 16. He was less pleased about going back after GCSEs, but could come up with no other sggestions other than get a job!.....he had no idea of what job at the time.

The extra two years did provide him with 2 Alevel passes and 1 AS. But more importantly he grew up. He also got a part time retail job and played lots of sport. He passed his driving test which IMO made him much more employable. It may not be essential in London but in rural areas you do need to be able to drive.

He never wanted to go to university like his older DB &DS, but he did do an advanced craft apprenticeship. It was perfect for him. The industry he works in is about as ression proof as it gets and more importantly he is debt free.

Some DC might have firm career plans at 16, and they should be able to persue them, but I do think there should still be some education element under 18.

juneybean · 19/08/2010 17:59

I did a modern apprenticeship when I was 16 (9 years ago) was probably the only one who did it from school.

bruffin · 19/08/2010 18:56

"I think 16 may be a bit too young. Many will still be only 15 when they finish school"

Why is it too young. DH was an august baby and was 15 when he started his apprenticeship and is now an electronics engineer. He learnt on the job.
My mum was only 15 when she left school as well. It used to be the norm to train school leavers.