to think leaving school at 16 to go to work isn't such a bad thing

[southeastastra]

even in these times.

i do think sometimes degrees do give students a weird view of the working world.

Same here. I was 15 when I left school (August Birthday). Was not particularly academic (could have been but more interested in boys and going out than schoolwork but my mum gave me a choice - either stay on at school for A levels or go get a job. I chose the latter.

I have been in constant employment for the last 27 years, and have had the opportunity to gain more qualifications through various employers which have all helped me advance up the corporate ladder. I think that going to Uni would probably have hindered me instead of helping.

Not too young for everyone maybe, but it was for my DS2!

Anyway they won't have the option soon will they. Don't all DC have to stay on at school or in training until 18 from 2015(ish?)

Actually I was 15 lol (July birthday) but only for a week ;)

My DS was 15 (Aug birthday) and he got an apprenticeship. He is now fully qualified with no debt-I think it is brilliant.

My DD left school at 16 ...worked in a shop and has now worked her way up to a management position

The problem with stats like "A graduate will earn £100k more over a lifetime than a non-graduate" is that they're not comparing the same people (fairly obviously) so they're not saying "Jane would have earned £100k more over her life if she'd been a graduate" but that "the average graduate earns £100k more over their life than the average non-graduate". If you think about it, this is not that improbable.

BUT, for an individual it's fairly meaningless. Just because Jane decides to go to Uni does not mean that she'll earn £100k more than if she doesnt. If Jane gets a degree but still ends up working in a non-graduate job, she wont earn more than if she didnt get that degree. She'll actually be worse off because she'll have fewer years working and more debt.

Kids shouldnt be going to do A-levels and Uni just because they cant think of anything else to do.

As Eve's experience shows, not all degrees are worth doing from an earnings perspective. It's up to the student to check that doing a specific degree will actually enhance their earnings power. If your employer doesnt care if you've got a masters or not, he/she is not going to pay you for having one.

I think there's something to be said for it, yeah. Amongst my friendship group (we're all mid-to-late 20's), the one's who left school early and started working have done the best out of all of us and nearly all of the degree educated are in big trouble!

Some examples of my friends who left school early and did well? Here goes!

1. Female, 25. Left school at 17 and went to work as a receptionist for a well known bank. Worked her way up, became an analyst and has just been head-hunted for a £75,000 a year job! Nice going!!!

2. Male, 28. Left school at 16 and did an apprenticeship in Welding. Now owns his own company and earns goodness knows how much. Certainly enough to spoil us all at the bar when we go out!

3. Female, 26. Left school at 17 and went to work part time for Argos. Now manages an Argos store in London, is on good money and her store recently won "store of the year". She received a nifty little Ford Focus as a prize!!!

4. Male, 27. Went to work in his dad's garage as a mechanic straight after leaving school at 15. He has a missus, a nice house, 4 dogs and a wedding to pay for. Oh, and kids are imminent. He seems to be handling it all quite well and he'll get the business in the end.

5. Female, 26. Left school at 16. Is dyslexic also. Worked in an RBS call centre and then moved on to Barclays. She is now quite high up and earning a good wedge. She is also training to be a Financial Advisor. Chi-ching!!!

6. Female, 26. Left school at 17 and worked EVERYWHERE! Pizza Hut, Anglian Windows, various Travel Agents - you name it! She went travelling for two years. Came back and found her niche in caring for brain injured adults. She been there two years now and is already assistant manger. She loves it and is a natural. She may eventually train to be a nurse.

And now lets look at the kids I know with degrees:

1. Male, 27. Has a degree in Media Studies with Film. Worked in Sales and Post-Production after leaving Uni - was a natural but hated it and was eventually made redundant last year. Wanted to try his hand at Production but has only gained two freelance jobs in the last year (he has been temping in admin the rest of the time). The jobs just aren't out there. He has decided to re-train as a Lawyer.

2. Female, 26. Has a degree from Cambridge University and got a first!!! Has worked her way up as retail manager in the Arcadia group over the years and earns a good crust. However, her store is about to close down and her position is being made redundant. She may have to take a job in Ireland if she wants to keep earning a similar wage. Otherwise, She'll stay here but be demoted. Hardly seems fair on someone who worked hard enough to gain a bloody first form Cambridge, now does it?!!!

3. Male, 27. Has a degree in Journalism. Did fuck all with it and has worked in administration and sales for an Air Conditioning company ever since. He FINALLY realised he was wasted and now commences his PGCE in Primary Teaching in, well two weeks actually! Anther one having to retrain.....

4. Female, 26. has a Media degree but couldn't get work in TV so started work as a PA. Hated it and went travelling around the world for a year. Once she landed back in the UK, she decided she wanted to join the Police but is back working as a PA whilst her application is being processed. Watch this space, I say.....

5. Female, 26. Another one with a Meeeeeja degree. Worked for years as a freelance runner (mostly for ITV). Work has inevitably dried up due to the recession and she has buggered off travelling around the world to have a think about things. I hope she finds something better out there. as there's nowt over here!!!

6. Male, 25. Actually has a Maths degree but fucked around and spent some time in prison. He actually came out and got a good job in IT based on the NVQ he took whilst inside!!! He is the hubby-to-be of female number 5 out of the non-degree educated bunch.....

So unless my friends are weird (and they certainly can be!), surely these case studies are telling us that a degree is not quite what it used to be.....

I think it depends on whether a person is able to choose.

I asked a friend of mine why she left school at 16, even though she's obviously bright enough for uni. She gave me a moron look and told me that (in her words) if she'd stayed on at school she'd have got the shit kicked out of her on XXXXX estate for being so twatting up herself to think she was fit for better than cleaning or ncare work.

It seems to me that degrees are often more of a marker of social class than intelligence...

What bollocks, most of my dcs friends from our council estate are doing A levels

Fucking sick of the council estate bashing on MN

I think it can be a good thing. I worked at McDonalds for 5 years whilst doing A-levels and uni, and was a manager. After my degree all I got was a pretty crappy job, £6K a year less than I'd have been on had I stayed on at McDonalds (I was a shift manager and they wanted me to move to the salaried manager scheme). Friends who still work there have done really well for themselves and families. I know it seems like the worst place to work in some respects, but those who stick at it work really hard.

I've always thought pushing everyone into uni was a mistake. Soon there's going to be a real shortage of people with practical skills and trades and an abundance of people who think that because they have a degree, certain jobs are beneath them.

Taking a year out at 16 to work and save - fine.

Completely leaving education at 16 - not a good idea.

A Levels and uni arent the only way forward. There are vocational quals and apprenticeships for young people these days.

I certainly wouldn't want my 16 yr old to just leave education full stop. What opportunities will the future hold? Not many.

usualsuspect Council estates are not a generic social or demographic entity. Just because the kids on your council estate are doing their A-levels does not mean that they will be on every council estate.

Besides, you're talking about now. The friend I quote left school in the late '80s, when far fewer kids did A-levels anyway...

So don't bloody label all council estate kids the same then

UNI is not for everyone. But leaving school at 16 is not a very good idea unless the young person is going into some sort of apprenticeship. A 16 year old would find it very hard to get a job in these times,

Surely everyone knows leaving school at 16 isn't necessarily bad.

Every time there is a university/A level/student debt thread people pile on to talk about the plumber they know who earns a fortune.

But still the overwhelming majority of MNers have children who eventually go on to university. So is it just ok for other people's children?

Also, my Dad did go to uni but dropped out and he told me that he walked straight into a job and left several jobs on a Friday to walk into another on the following Monday. This was the early-mid seventies. That simply doesn't happen any more.

PYT, my sister left school at 16 due to extreme bullying, had good GCSE's and an AS level, worked in several admin jobs, ended up working for the council doing secretarial work for the legal team. At 21 she decided to go back into education, got a uni place on the strength of her qualifications and work experience and is shortly due to commence her third year, well on the way to a 1st class degree. However, the experience she had gained in the five years between leaving and returning to education suggests she had a very promising future ahead of her without any more than GCSE's and an AS level. It can be done.

If boths parents, and even grandparents have degrees it's much harder I'm sure not to feel a 'failure' if your DC don't go to university. For people like me who left school at 16 with just O levels and saw friends and family leave at 15 without any certificates, it is much less of a problem.

From threads I've read on MN nearly everyone who educates privately would be mortified if DC left at 16 or even 18.

Also plumbing is often mentioned as an easy way to a make lots of money. It is if you are prepared to work very hard. It is like many of the 'trades' dirty, manual, outside, in all weathers, and to make good money you have to put lots of hours in. Having said that DB left school at 16, never went back for his GCSE results and has done very well.

My DS certainly doesn't feel a failure and he comes from a family where everyone has been on to education after 18yrs. I am very proud of him, just as proud of him as his elder brother who went through university and has a good degree. He has done really well-an apprenticeship suited him-he isn't academic. He can choose to take it further ar university if he wants to later. People really should respond to the DC they have and not the one they want. It is entirely up to my DCs what they want to do with their life-I will support and encourage but not channel.
University isn't for everyone and I have come to the conclusion that it is a waste of time and money for many. Things will swing the other way once this is generally realised.

People are now coming out of university and getting the sort of jobs that they would get after O'levels at one time!

I thought the government was bringing in staying in education until 18? Not necessarily A-levels but full-time education nonetheless.

DH left school at 16, deided he would be managing his own office by 21 (he'd just turned 22 when he did manage his own office so he was a little gutted ) Set up on his own at 28, and is earning as much as his school friends who went to uni.

He does regret not being able to change careers, though, as he only has experience in one area. If he'd finished A'levels, he feels he could have the choice to go to uni later if he wanted to.

His decision to leave school and start work was fuelled by his families finances, though.