to think Buddha was a bit off key with this one:

[bintofbohemia]

‎"Every human being is the author of his own health or disease." ?

(just seen this as someone's status on FB and for some reason it made me a bit cross.)

yy thats the issue with karma i think
the big BUT

YANBU.

It's just a way of people trying to 'take control'.

I don't believe in Karmic ill health but I do think some ailments can be overcome - obviously not serious or chronic ones.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big believer that there is a huge mind/body connection and I don't doubt that you can think yourself into illnesses (and maybe out of them.) I just think to tell someone who has cancer, for example, that they brought it on themselves is a bit shitty really.

(Not that that is the case here, I just think if you had some sort of serious illness and saw a quote like that it make might you feel a bit crap.)

Yeah but the Buddha also said;
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.

guessing he meant in spiritual terms, not physical

I like that, BonniePrinceB.

Well, my friend got back to me:

"I believe that it is the MIND that gives the label of "health" or "disease" to our physicality. In this way, we define (or "author") our wellness. The experience of Buddha himself shows the way:

"In this year [his 80th] he [Buddha] had to su...ffer from a severe sickness, and "sharp pains came upon him even unto death." With his iron will, mindful and reflective, the Buddha bore them without any complaint.

The Buddha was now conscious that he would soon pass away. But he thought that it would not be proper to pass away without addressing his attendant disciples and giving instructions to the order. So he decided to subdue his sickness by his will and live by constantly experiencing the bliss of Arahatship." ~ Narada Maha Thera, published by Singapore Buddhist Meditation Centre, reprinted by The Corporate Body of the Buddha Educational Foundation."

I suppose it boils down to "grin and bear it". I can't explain why it irks me - it just seems a bit smug.

Buddhism seems to have the image of being a nice and cuddly religion (see Richard Gere, Miranda Kerr's proclamations of following it etc) in fact some buddhists believe that bad things happen to people because they did something in a past life. That applies to disability, illness, everything basically. Seems to be down to interpretation like all religions IMO.

You're right. I'm staying out of debates on FB, I've started to do my own head in.

To me that statement is about the judgements we put onto things. We regard illness and disability as something to be feared and avoided because we judge them to be associated with suffering and pain, or somehow an inferior existence even if pain-free. Therefore we are telling ourselves a story about what illness and health mean all the time - we are literally the authors of our health and ilnesses, not because we cause them to manifest but because of the stories we tell oursleves about them.

Does that make sense? Someone who uses a wheelchair may come from a place where they have fantastic health and wellbeing because that is how they have come to see themselves, regardless of the judgements of others. Someone else may make peace with their cancer and enter into their illness as a way of gaining clarity or insight. They make a choice to write the story of cancer- as- blessing.

I think its about labelling and making it easier for yourself by not letting the negativity of illness defeat you, rather than the disease itself. Nothing wrong with a bit of positivity if possible, it won't change the illness itself, but it will help you feel better in yourself.

Hello again spiritmum! Yes, that makes sense. In theory anyway, I still think I would personally struggle to see illness as positive without putting a hell of a lot of work into it. I suppose it makes sense to view something in a positive light as the negative doesn't help or change the facts.

I initially saw the first quote as "you bring it on yourself" which is what got my goat a bit.

Hi, Bohemia! Of course it'd be a struggle; I know the theory but it'll be a life's work for me to put any of it into practise. Doesn't make the theory wrong though.

You mentioned Louise Hay on your other thread, have you seen her film You Can Heal Your Life? There are several women on there talking about how their cancer transformed their lives. Also 'Broken Open' by Elizabeth Lesser is a very good read; she talks about the 'pheonix process', or the transformation that comes about through suffering and the clarity it can bring.

It all just comes down to our thoughts, doesn't it? Even dying doesn't matter unless we think it does. So in a way I suppose the quote is saying that people bring illness upon themselves, not through causing the illness itself but by mistakenly believing that the illness is 'wrong' or that they are 'suffering'. So equally we can choose not to suffer by changing our thinking in any situation.

See, easy, isn't it!

Oooh, I didn't know there was a film - I have an audiobook of the book which is great. I might listen to it again actually. I also have "the Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle, have you read that? If not, I think you would like it.

The thing I have the biggest problem with is the idea of attachment, and how in Buddhism you need to strive to get rid of it. I just don't know how you can function as a living, loving human being and not have attachment to people. My husband and children for example, I love them desperately and I don't know how I could detach myself from them mentally. I know they're not mine and everything changes and goes but I can't unnattach myself from them to protect my state of mind.

Likewise, with the Power of Now, (I haven't finished it, but the premise seems to be live in the moment, the moment is alright and everything is alright.) But the thing is, what if the moment isn't alright? Say you're in a car crash and lying there bleeding to death, how is that ok - how can you think your way out of that suffering? Anyway, I might be digressing too much there but it's good to have someone else to kick these ideas around with, no one else I really know is into things like this...

The film's pretty good anyway but if you get the bonus double DVD edition you also get a secodn DVD with interviews with the likes of Wayne Dyer, Gregg Braden, Cheryl Richardson, Gay Hendrix etc. And there are also interactive affirmations o it's really good value.

I can't get on with Eckhart Tolle. I know I should, but I just can't read 'The Power of Now' at all. I get on better with Thich Nhat Hanh's 'Miracle of Mindfulness' which is much the same topic but from a Buddhist perspective. Recommend him all round actually, he's written a good book on anger and one called Peace in Every Step. Love his audios too, his voice sounds like a peaceful running stream. Amazing man.

Byron Katie says that the worse thing that can happen to you is a thought. So if you're in the car crash then so long as you can accept the reality of it...my belief (hope?) is that if you are in the thick of something like that then you don't really think, shock prevents you. Suffering comes later when you think about what has happened.

I know what you mean about the people we love, detaching is so hard. Byron Katie said something along the lines of our inability to detach from our loved ones being a burden on them. If we need them to be anything in order to be happy, then we have a requirement of them. And that requirement might just prevent them from leading the life that they want to lead. And when our loved ones are dying, they have the additional burden to bear of us not wanting them to.

I really want to get to that place where I am detached enough just to love unconditionally. I want to go to Byron Katie's School for the Work but as it's in Germany I can't make it work out practically.

I'm glad to have these conversations too, I find so few people I can discuss these ideas with in RL.

YANBU. Buddha was way off reasonable with that.

Buddhists and other flaky spiritual people have always pissed me right fucking off when they say that cancer, heart disease, haemophilia, autism, a gangrenous wound etc.. is caused by Karma or some other past-life shite or something you did to someone once...

Get a life, losers. It's either a hereditary disease, a pathogen invading the body, or something else easily explained by the genius science that we have developed over the last few centuries. Religious explanations for medical phenomena immediately reveal the explainee as a freakin' dumb-ass and an ignoramus beyond compare.

The same goes for Christians as well as I have heard many of these idiots blaming a perfectly explainable illness as a "punishment from GOD".

Sad that such beliefs are espoused by anyone at all in these modern times.

Really appreciate this thread and am looking up Byron Katie

Here

The quote smacks of "positive thinking" which I believe wreaks untold damage on unlucky people. I've heard very influential people claiming that things like the Pakistan floods are the result of 'incorrect' thinking

Buddhists, however, aim for self-compassion. This doesn't mean feeling sorry for themselves, it means something more like "bearing up" as Granny used to say. I aim for that myself; it's a sensible way to cope with the shit life throws.

I should add that I have a (very probably) psychogenic illness. In that respect, I am the author of my own sickness. That doesn't make it any less real, though - unfortunately.

I heard a programme on Radio 4 a while back about the effect of positive thinking on illness, where they spoke to people who had cancer and confessed to feeling like shit when a treatment failed, or if their illness became terminal, as if it was their fault for not being cheerful enough.

I can see that if there's nothing you can physically do to change something you may as well be cheerful but that's not going to come naturally to most people.

There are the 'new thought' authors such as Doreen Virtue who really do believe that if we all think in the right way then there will be no such thing as illness or disaster. I do think the collective thoughts of people has an effect on people's health (I can remember picking up on something after 9/11) but that's as far as I'll go.

It does seem pretty stupid to expect people will illness to be cheerful; I think a great deal of that comes from the people around them, including family as well as medical staff, who just find it easier to cope with if the person who is sick is dealing with it okay.

What I like about Byron Katie is that she doesn't believe that our thoughts manifest as our reality, but that our pain comes from what we think about what happens. So to her 'incorrect' thinking is 'This shouldn't be happening' and arguing with reality rather than thinking that you can will change with your thoughts. She's married to the theologian Stephen Mitchell who believes her teachings to be closest to Taoism than any other belief.

Grace, I am sorry to hear of your illness. xx

He's obviously hasn't got the authoring of his own health quite right, as Buddha is morbidly obese!

No offense.
I'm being tongue in cheek