Thinking that dp is crazy or stupid?

[hotCheeseBURNS]

He doesn't "believe" in evolution.

He's not well educated, having left school before doing his GCSEs, and he doesn't read. But still... I thought that it was only a few mental fundamentalist religious types who believed in creationism? Am I wrong?

I've always thought it was just ignorance (of science in general) on his part but he's disturbingly closed off to the whole concept...

"Actually, the evolution theory has had a number of respected scientists find major flaws in it. "

No, it hasn't.

"volution was a theory - albeit one that absolutely makes sense"

You need to look up what "theory" means.

Meh. evolution is a theory. So is creationism. It's also possible not to believe either! And be intelligent and well educated!

Creationism isn't a theory in any useful sense of the word. For a start off, it isn't falsifiable.

Raven, am hooting at this

I'm a solidly convinced atheist, & to me, the chanting etc is roughly akin to him solemnly going off to feed invisible sugar lumps to his invisible pet unicorn.

Oh dear.
Arrrgh me hearties.

I thought everyone knew the Universe was created by the Flying Spaghetti Monster

ratspeaker PMSL :)

Evolution is not a fact - it is a theory which fits some of the facts but by no means all. I am not a creationist btw :) but evolution does not nearly explain everything - for example how do you explain the fact that species differenciate so completely using evolution?

(Just to set out my stall to start with - I believe in the theory of evolution - I have not studied it extensively and have taken teachers/scientists on face value that it's correct. I'm also Christian but believe God created all life using evolution)

OP - I take it from comments futher up the thread that you haven't read Darwin's work, nor studied the facts on which the theory of evolution is based. Therefore I assume you have just been taught that life evolved and you've accepted this theory on faith that the people telling you have seen the research and it's correct.

So your belief in evolution is faith based, it's not fact based (as you haven't gone into studying the data/research with an open mind and drawn your own conclusions). Your DH's believe in creationism is also faith based. He has trusted the view of the church, in the same way you have trusted the view of the scientists.

If you have any respect for this man, you'll respect his right to an opinion based on faith as much as yours.

Also, that's a pretty stong faith view point he has, you've only just realised you've married a man with a strong Christian, non-secular faith? How did that happen?

If you seriously doubt the power of evolution to generate species, you're a creationist, of the sort that mutters about "kinds" and grudgingly accepts micro-evolution (on the grounds that otherwise they have to believe that MRSA doesn't exist) but attempts to erect all sorts of spurious problems about "kinds".

You know, I firmly beleieve thatt it is impossible to understand evolution and not accept it.

I've never met anybody who was fully conversant with the subject and who disbelieved it.

I make no apologies for the aspersions which this casts on Creationists.

Quite. Which is why nutters creationists have their own strange version of science, because it's the only version in which what they say even begins to make sense. I especially love it when they try thermodynamics, although their attempts to play with the speed of light in order to justify a young earth make for a certain sticky pleasure.

It IS possible to be intelligent and well read and not believe on evolution, but it doesn't make you any less wrong.

Species are inventions of human taxonomists, not evolutionary units. They are useful abstractions, so the degree to which things special is almost entirely dependant on your definitions.

Yep tokonambu, it's cruel fun to set them of and watch them tie themselves in nots over the laws of physics.

Coalition what I meant is, that I have never met anyone who is well read on the subject of evolution who did not accept it as fact in the commonly accepted meaning of the word. Never.

"Evolution is not a fact - it is a theory which fits some of the facts but by no means all."

I'm intrigued - which facts does it not fit?

isnt dr robert winston an intelligent design believer?

"It IS possible to be intelligent and well read and not believe on evolution" but unfortunately no-one's managed it yet. Existence proofs are not necessarily constructive.

"Species are inventions of human taxonomists"

Well, that and the ability to produce fertile offspring. There are some pairs of things that have traditionally been seen as separate species that it turns out can interbreed (pretty doggies here) but the converse is not true. And although we and peas share a common ancestor, I'm not worrying too much about it turning out we're the same species.

I'm curious to know what babies people are throwing out with the bathwater... If you don't believe in evolution, do you believe in genetics (and DNA evidence, drug resistant bugs, dog breeding etc.)? If not, what about all those innocent people in prison... If you believe in evolution and God do you believe in natural selection (the survival of the fittest)? In which case isn't human "goodness" just reciprocal altruism (you scratch my back, I'll reproduce with you)?

BTW, I wish I could have an invisible unicorn and feed it sugar lumps. I was raised by a long proud line of atheists, no comforting imaginary friends for me. Boo hoo.

I think the lack of any actual creationists or id supporters on this thread means we are now inventing them.

Which is rather reassuring in a way.

Mind you, it's a good way to sort out sensible secondary schools. Dress conservatively, act demure, sidle up to a biology teacher with your looking a bit Plymouth Brethren and say "how do you teach the controversial area of evolution" and listen for the pandering. First sign of "difficult...sensitive...faith..." you know you're in the wrong school. Indeed, just looking at the displays on the walls is enough; you're looking for "some scientists think..." and "one theory is..." in order to sport "teach the controversy" wedge strategies.

have had this argument with FIL for the last 14yrs. he keeps asking who was the original person to press the button to start evolution - that would be the man with a beard on the white cloud then

... can you tell I'm not religious?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_as_theory_and_fact

It baffles and depresses me that we've reached the 21st Century and we're still debating the obvious stuff...

I spoke to my DH about this - he 'doesn't know' how we came to be - 'but you know what I think' - 'yeah atoms' - WTF!?!? Maybe he is stupid

Just stepping back a few posts, mumeeee told us "There has been several flaws found in the evolution theory." Knowing what they are might be helpful.

I, myself am a fervent Atomist from the Church of Latter Day Atoms. PMSL!