To think it's harder for SAHM to train their sons in equality?

[NoSleepTillWeaning]

I was just thinking, as I was cleaning the microwave, that although the men in our generation are better than the previous one, the majority of women still do the majority of the household chores. when thinking about how to get my DS to be even better it struck me that most of the way we teach our children is by example. So is it harder, in a household where the mum's role is the childcare and house, to set sons a good example?

Disclaimers:

• I'm not anti SAHM, it's a genuine question about how we all train our sons appropriately.
• I am a working mum (part time).
• I realise I've started with a lot of generalisations.
• DS is due to wake up in 5 minutes so I won't be glued to the computer to referee the bunfight discussion.

This is entirely dependent on both parents attitude.

If the SAHM mother's work is valued and shown as one of several options, then all will be fine. If division of labour is presented as teamwork then there's no reason for the sons to see microwave cleaning as different to whatever work the other partner has to get done.

Just try and avoid the 'Oh wait til dad gets home, he'll fix it' and you should be OK.
If he sees both of you as able to solve whatever problem come along, regardless of gender, then he'll understand that it's ability and preference that dictates what you can do, rather than sex.
Blur the gender-specific roles when you can, so there aren't girl and boy jobs around the house. My boy changes the lightbulbs because he's taller than my daughter. She's better at cooking and flatpack furniture assembly.

If you're a SAHM you can still train your sons to pick after themselves as soon as they're able (and your DH for that matter), not pander to them, and make them appreciate how lucky they are. I think being a SAHM should be primarily about caring for the children, although this inevitably involves a lot of clearing up. But your DH can help when he's there. I think a mum who goes about it in this way is more likely to bring up a boy who pulls his weight than a mother who works but allows her son to be lazy, demanding etc. to the au pair/nanny.

I'll be staying at home because DH earns more than I do, I am experienced with children, and frankly he is a crap cook. But it was my choice, and I feel we are equal in everything. Even at the moment I only work part time because I enjoy having proper food at the end of the evening and we like seeing eachother. Not because "I have to" all our major decisions are joint and works for us that way.

SAHD are becoming more and more common too so soon it will be seen as a lifestyle choice for anyone to make and not a gender issue.

Very interested in seeing how this thread turns out.

The men in our generation are better than the previous one, or so I've heard... My OH is a dinosaur and states that anything 'domestic' is beneath him, and not his job...

I'll go back to working when DS goes to school, and I'll show him by example that I can work and care for him and the home.

DS loves to help, so I encourage him. My intention is to make sure he knows how to cook, iron and clean. That he understands that this is housework, that it needs to be done, regardless. that it is NOT women's work.

My biggest challenge is to raise my son to be a man, to teach him about female equality when his father's nation thinks that men do nothing and women must be on call to perform 24 hours a day at the men's whim.

We live in the UK, so that will help.

What about examples SAHM's teaching daughters?

Just sayin'.

I think as others said, as long as you show both sexes what they're choices are and how to behave respectfully, it's not the most important issue.

Example, not examples. And 'SAHM's ARE teaching daughters'. Terrible Muriel.

I think children learn mostly be example, yes.

If a couple have very clearly demarcated, different roles, one being sole earner and one at home, then you probably have to work that bit harder to get the message across that women and men have the same opportunities. Where there is more of a cross over of roles, it comes more naturally (eg because Dh and I worked, he would sometimes do the nursery drop off and pick up and sometimes I would, and sometimes he'd get home first and get the dinner going and sometimes I would).

However, I think if one parent has a sexist attitude then that's far more worrying, as children do pick up and are influenced by their parents views, and frankly, I would never have chosen a partner who viewed a woman's role as to 'serve' and the man's role as to provide.

On the fence on this one!

It is a LOT quicker to just do jobs ourselves. When I am working more, I tend to do more of the jobs myself without involving DS (who generally is very pleased to 'help' out).

However, my DH was raised by a SAHM (and a very traditional dad), who I guess then went on to 'retire' very early when the children left home (early forties). DH AND his sister left home not being able to cook, understand that picking up after yourself is a common courtesy when living with others, and do simple DIY tasks. I guess MIL thought she was doing a great job my doing everything for them?!

I work (part-time) and I see the DH's a couple of my SAHM friends definitely doing more to help out than my DH. The most recent example was at my sons party - my DH thought his role there was to simply hang around and chat. I asked him to do ONE thing and he looked a little...surprised! We go round to their houses and the DHs work with the SAHMs as a team in a relaxed manner...

Anyway, yes, I see your point but I also agree with you that there are a lot of generalisations.

True, pruodnsad, but I was only thinking about boys at the time.

Even tho I work and DH is not a dinosaur I still feel that the majority of the resposibility for running everything is with me. He does cook, clean, etc but the default is me IYSWIM. And I think that inbuilt attitude / expectation, whatever it should be called, is the harder thing to change. How do we get our sons not to just help out but to see everything as a role for whoever, not just the person who is mainly in the home.

Maybe I'm just too much in chagrre at home but. I don't think it's just me, I do still feel that men of our ge aeration expect to help but not be in charge of running the home.

I am not training my DSs in anything. They see us as equals.

DS1 asked about it the other day actually. I told him that in each family there needs to be money and there needs to be looking after, so for right now Dad is making my half of the money and I am doing his half of the looking after. This can and will change as DS2 gets older.

I am the boss around here, there needs to be a boss in our family - it is the way it works. DH and I discuss the big decisions but I can't think of a single time it wasn't my choice that was followed. DH understands that I am holding more of the "threads" of what makes up our happy life whereas he gets more of a small picture.

Well, for an example from the opposite side of the coin - my MIL worked all her life. She also did a load of "manly" chores at home because FIL was mostly unwell - so she laid brick pathways and things like that because he couldn't. BUT she also never trained either of her DSs in the concept of helping with household chores, or picking up after themselves, or cleaning etc.

Consequence - DH is good at doing what he wants to do and crap at doing anything else - refuses to do most household chores unless absolutetly badgered into it; lives like a pig if left to his own devices, clothes all over everywhere, rarely washes them, never tidies. He does cook though (although not as a result of his mum's training) and is regularly bullied into persuaded to do the washing up.

And yet his mother was technically a good role model for equality, supposedly.

I am currently a SAHM with a 2.8yo DS. He helps with cleaning, tidying, baking, putting stuff away from the dishwasher, hanging out washing, sweeping, gardening - all sorts of jobs. I don't plan to allow his sex to direct which jobs he will do in the future - all tasks will be seen as needing to be done by everyone as far as possible.

As a SAHM my job is very much raising our DS, the housework is shared between us as it always has been. DH always does the vacuuming and ironing. Added to that the fact that I'm a bit of a slattern, I don't think DS is going to grow up believing in old fashioned gender roles or even knowing they exist.

Sorry can't type today.

I am a huge slattern, and I don't give a shit. I only iron shirts (my own), don't think it's really necessary for other things. House is clean but untidy by most people's standards. I drop my clothes on the floor (DP picks them up and folds them, but he folds his underpants like Mark Darcy). So am pretty certain my kids won't grow up thinking that women are responsible for all domestic things

I don't think it matters who does what. It's more about being willing to do your bit when necessary I think.

i think that there's a lot of time in a child's life to model behaviours. very few mums stay at home until their children leave home.

also, i think the modelling of behaviours is down to the husband, he has to show that he respects and values the work of the SAHM and not treat her as a skivvy. while the sAHM MUSt resist treating the WOHD as a child.

personally, my mum was a SAHM when i was pre-school but then she re-trained, graduated and went out to work while during my teens my dad worked from home as a freelancer so was more 'around' after school and in holidays.

i always had a sense of equal partnership from them.. i think that if it is equal then that will come across in a thousand little words and actions all day.

I guess my other point is that no matter how much you get your DS to help out is it undermined by the fact it is always you doing the job in the first place?

Actually I am confused as to why a child would assume a parent in charge of the house hold was less than equal than the working parent?

Obviously there was a gender issue in the past more so.. but wasn't that to do with decision making and that "dad wore the pants" than to do with who does what?

I think it's likely to be a lot easier nowadays anyway.

My own upbringing was one of, dad working, mum staying at home, and only working when we reached secondary school age, and even then she did fairly low status jobs which fitted around term time and school hours. That was typical of the time though- I had very few school friends whose mothers worked in real careers and were seen as 'equal' to their father. I do remember being slightly puzzled, as my mum was clearly as clever as my dad, and got a degree etc, and I do remember kind of questioning that in my head, particularly as my mum didn't differentiate between me and my brother, and expected us both to go to University and get a good career etc. In retrospect, she was under-employed for pretty much all her adult life, and would probably have been more fulfilled and self confident if she'd had a more equal role. But that was the norm in those days.

But do you not feel sanielle that even tho we have more equality, and I am not seen as any lesser by DH, we still end up doing most of the work in running the household?

People are so contrary its difficult to draw any generalisations surely? I am an SAHM after 10 years in the City but seem to be viewed as the boss (DD aged 3 today asking "mummy may daddy and I watch a dvd). Some friends who grew up with SAHMs are fiercely career orientated and vice versa.

My paternal granny was a SAHM but my father had to look after himself, wash his own sports kit etc so is very good around the house and does all the housework, cleaning hoovering etc.

I think if one parent is at home more, then they will naturally do more household jobs though, simply because they are there to do them.

My experience of being a SAHM was maternity leaves, and also when I worked part time many years ago. I did the laundry, cooking and (occasionally!) ran the hoover round, because even with young children at home, I was physically there while my DH was 20 miles away at work. And many household chores are minimal effort these days. Laundry is sticking clothes in and pressing a button, it's not like taking it all down to the river to scrub, is it?! So I think if one parent is at home, they are likely to do most household stuff, whether it's the mum or dad. That's why if you have those roles - one at work full time, one at home full time, you probably have to work that bit harder to get the message across to your children that they have broad and equal opportunities.

But do you think that is because DH thinks you should as you aren't his equal? I be it is because you feel you are better at it can get it done quicker etc? Think men and women (generally) have differant priorities. You may feel the kitchen needs to be done tonight.. he thinks leave it. But you get it done because you want it done now. Not his wishes at all.

Also our generation didn't tend to have SAHD so maybe men our age (I'm 27) still saw it as something women had to do? Where as men (little boys now) in the future will see both as viable job options and equally important? Again, as long as major family decisions are made by both adults and women don't pull the ooh wait till you dad gets home rubbish.