To think it's harder for SAHM to train their sons in equality?

[NoSleepTillWeaning]

I was just thinking, as I was cleaning the microwave, that although the men in our generation are better than the previous one, the majority of women still do the majority of the household chores. when thinking about how to get my DS to be even better it struck me that most of the way we teach our children is by example. So is it harder, in a household where the mum's role is the childcare and house, to set sons a good example?

Disclaimers:

• I'm not anti SAHM, it's a genuine question about how we all train our sons appropriately.
• I am a working mum (part time).
• I realise I've started with a lot of generalisations.
• DS is due to wake up in 5 minutes so I won't be glued to the computer to referee the bunfight discussion.

I bet*

YABU...

If the household is balanced then it doesn't matter who works. DH's mother always worked but you wouldn't think so, she is the stereotypical working class housewife of a bygone era. His father is a slippers, dinner on the table sort of bloke.

Respect and expectations for/of women come from modelling behaviour and attitudes and not from the division of outside/inside the home labour.

(I am a SAHM and DH is WOHF, he is very hands on with the dcs and does some cleaning, most of the cleaning is done by fairies as the dcs that would notice are at school!!)

You're right, it may nothing to do with equality - But I do think that there is still a default to the house being the woman's empire. It may be equality, it may be priorities, but how does that change and will it be different next generation?

I don't think it matters what 'job' mum has, it is the attitude of the parents in general, I feel.

I am a SAHM, & I don't see my 'role' as the children & the house. It is both our roles. In fact dh does more when he is home than I do, but that's beside the point!

It is attitude & upbringing that influences a child more, imo.

I feel we are a partnership too, DH earns the family money, I run the home, it is our money, it is our home. Everyone contributes. It would be easy for me to do all the housework while the DCs are at school, but think it is very important that they a) learn how to do things and b) see how time consuming it is. My mum taught us how to do housework, ironing etc, but I had no idea how much time was actually required till I had a home of my own because she did nearly all of it while we were at school so I never saw most of it happening. For instance I thought that toilets only needed cleaning once a week as I only saw it happen at the weekend. I do not want to repeat this, even if it would be easier. I agree with others who have said that it is the attitudes which count more than the actual who does what.

Well, I'm glad my DDs will only find well brought up men!

I don't think it's harder, all families need to show a united and equal partnership irrespective of how the tasks are divvied up.

It did just make me think about our arrangements though. I work part time, and so do a bit more of the household stuff, but DH does his share. But we do conform to quite strong stereotypes in the type of activity- he does the bins, the hedges, the DIY etc. I do the laundry, dusting, and we split the cooking (he does roasts, BBQ etc). But that's the only way it would work since I am genuinely hopeless at anything involving screws or painting, and I don't mind most of the things that are my jobs. So am I setting a bad example?

Not sure the SAHM issue is the key one, as I know PLENTY of WOHM who also do all the cooking and cleaning!! Which arguably is setting an even worse example!!!!

However, I do think that we have an obligation to teach our sons (and DD's) about equality.

DH's DF is a bit sexist but is also VERY hardworking. DH was very much brought up in an environment where he was expected to spend all weekend helping his dad with DIY & gardening, whilst his DSis helped in the house. DH is as a result very hardworking, but tends to focus predominantly on 'man's work'!

In our house we have very traditionally gender specific roles. It kind of evens out re. workload cos we have so much DIY that needs doing, but DH tends to fix the cars, do the DIY, deal with any disasters that arise (washing machine broke today - argh!), and I do most of the housework (I work pt). I don't have a particular problem with this, but do worry about how this is perceived by the DCs.

DH does do some cooking, and baths the DCs, but tbh I am just as much to blame. I can only just change a light bulb, which isn't a great example to my DD!!!

No, I think it is about how much the mother is respected - not how much she works in or out the home. My mother (SAHM) was much more respected by my father than my mil (WOHM) was by her husband. In fact, I think dh has unreasonable expectations of me because his mother did everything - carried the family financially and did all the housework.

We live in an all female household, so jobs are done according to who can do them best. And who can be bothered. I'm naturally better at the cleaning cooking side of things, DP prefers mowing the lawn and DIY.
I was discussing this the other day with a colleague, who made the hilarious mistake of thinking my attractive feminine girly looking DP was the cook/cleaner.
Oh how we laughed.

So I think DD is oblivious to the male/female roles in a traditional household. Plus her father is a single man who lives alone, so he does everything in his own house too.

As someone said earlier very few men or women are a stay at home parent until their children leave home. Situations change, I was a SAHM for a few years, my husband supported us totally. I then ran my own business for a few years but DH made more money that us and I spent more time at home. Now I earn more than my husband, he works fewer hours and outside of the school holidays he does most of the housewrork.

But we never talk about who earns what in front of our dd, she possibly sees my husband doing more around the house but being 9 she knows I am at work for longer. I think she thinks that gender has nothing to do with your role in the family beyond the fact that women give birth and breastfeed because that is what she has seen at home - although I doubt she can remember back that far!

It also depends on why you do what you do. If you are the SAHP just because you are a woman or the main breadwinnder because you are a man that is sending the message to your children that your gender determines your life and perhaps that they are unequal. If you then as a SAHM spend a lot of time bored or unhappy or as a breadwinner running down work in the home it is going to be hard to set an example of equality.

Fluteyboots, I don't think you are setting a bad example, you are sharing your tasks according to ability and preference.
Which is far better than a knee-jerk response linked to either sexist or feminist principles.
I do car, cooking and garden, OH does ironing and DIY.
Same with DC who are teenagers. We all do what we are good at, and take turns with the boring crap that none of us cope well with, but has to be done. Like cleaning the bathroom.

I agree that the worst example is a mother who works full time and then does everything at home. You may not mind being a martyr but please do not set that example to your children.

tiptree, it's not just being a martyr (which is bad enough) - it's also failing to teach your DC that they should be helping out, giving them some kind of "I don't need to do that, someone else will" feeling (DH again)

I don't really think its a problem if my dcs learn that normally the dad goes to work and the mum stays @ home with the children, they would see that other families mums work too so they will be aware there are different ways of doing things, and as a sahm you can train your boys to do housework too which would probably stay with them when older? my 2 yr old boy is pretty good, he knows to put his finished cup etc in the sink, dirty clothes in washing basket, that kind of thing. not that his dad does any of that stuff for himself, but he is always out @ work so its only me and kids, so if i teach them to pick up after themselves that is what they will know?
i do think its bad the way some mothers bring up the sons to think they dont need to do anything, so dont intend to bring mine up that way although that is exactly what happened to dh (thanks for that mil!)

Agree that tasks should be distributed according to ability and preference - not blue jobs/pink jobs but also not must set a feminist example.

Anyone whose children (boys or girls) leave home not knowing how to work a washing machine or make themselves a meal has failed as a parent in my book.

Just shown this thread to DH who laughed!

When asked what was so funny he claimed that we;re just helping the next generation of men to be more independent and less likely to want/need to get married!!!!!!!!!

AAAARRRGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

yanbu.

Why is that a bad thing Russian? Surely it doesn't matter if our children don't want or need to partner up? If they do then great but if they are happy single then better to stay that way rather than follow life's "script" for the sake of it.

I think it might be EASIER to teach your children equality if you are at home if you work on the presumption that women do the majority of household "stuff" (and let's work on that assumption for now)

If I was at work (I dont work you see) but ALSO doing the majority of the house stuff, that would send a very clear message to both my children that its the woman's "job" to cook and clean, and that the man gets away with not doing it. And not even because he works, because mum is working too, so it just must be women's work, mustn't it?

Whereas if I happen to be at home and not working, well of course mum does the majority of the house stuff, because she is there, whilst Dad is at work, so it makes sense for the person who is there most often to do it.

So then all you have to teach them is that in some families (more so these days than ever) the dad stays home, and in others, the mum. Sometime's its based on who wants to be at home - sometime's its based on who earns more, and both cases can be either the mum or the dad.

So no - I'm not convinced its harder, if anything its easier. All you have to teach them, really, is that you dont "have" to stay home, that if you would rather work then that is an option.

In a household where both parents are working equal hours, however, yet the woman does most the cooking and cleaning, I'd wonder how you cover that off with your kids from a fairness and equality point of view!

The more friendships you can develop with different varieties of families the better, your children will come to accept all sorts of different roles if they have practical experience of them.

I was a SAHM whenmy children were small. I only had girls but they saw that DH helped with the housework and puuting them to bed. I don't think that they thought I wasn't any less of a parent then he was. My sister has boys and girls and all the children were taught to cook and clean as they were growing up.

Equality is not baout women going out to towrk. It's about men and women having equal opportunities to choose to go out to work or to stay at home.

Russian if a man is getting married only because he can't do his own washing then my daughters aren't going to want him anyway.