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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that I should have the same right to adult education as anyone else??

47 replies

smellmycheese · 13/08/2010 18:19

I would like to learn Spanish, as we have family there and it would be a really valuable skill.

My local adult education centre runs a course, up to GCSE level that sounds great for me.

The courses have a fee, which is already paid for if you qualify for free learning. Ie: if you're on benefits of some sort. I don't qualify, which is fine, i'm happy to pay for my own education, and agree that if you can afford to pay, you should.

The centre also has a creche, which is free again to people on benefits, but I would have to pay. Again, I have no problem with this. But I have now discovered that I have to wait until everyone has signed up to the course, as creche places for people on benefits take priority over others. So basically, if enough people take up the free places, DD cant have a paid place. This would mean I couldn't do the course, as I have no other childcare, other than a v expensive private nursery.

AIBU to expect that my wish to learn a skill and better myself should be as important as anyone else? I have no issue with paying for both the course and the creche, but am really pissed off to be told that I'm lower priority than someone on benefits who automatically gets a place before me!

OP posts:
Lauriefairycake · 13/08/2010 18:22

Step back for a second.

The over-riding necessity is to get people off benefits right? - so it means that them doing a course that's a skill/will boost their esteem may make them take up a job.

Whereas you have a job and can afford not to do the adult learning course for fun iyswim Hmm

shimmerysilverglitter · 13/08/2010 18:25

YABU.

TrillianAstra · 13/08/2010 18:25

Forget "rights", you don't have the same need for adult education as they do - you are taking Spanish for enterteinment, they might be taking English or Maths GCSE in order to be able to get a job.

While resources (the creche) are limited those with greater need should have greater priority.

Can you imagine if it were the other way around? Someone on benefits trying to improve their maths or english skills so they can get a job, and the creche is full because of people doing language classes?

carocaro · 13/08/2010 18:25

YABU - if you can afford it you have to pay for it.

We are in benefits due to DH's redundancy. I am having my courses paid for (Word, Excel and Power Point refresher) as I have been at SAHM for 5 years and need to brush up on my skills.

I cannot afford to pay for it and am doing the course when DS are back at school and pre-school. I have to wait until they are back at school as I can't afford private child care.

It's not a question of one person being more important that the other, but there is a differnce between someone wanting to learn spanish so they can visit family and someone wanting to update their skills to get a job.

If you can afford flights to Spain you can afford some childcare.

You seem to have an issue 'with people on benefits' Both should be allowed to learn a skill to better themselves whether on benefits or not.

hairytriangle · 13/08/2010 18:29

YABU.

This will be some part of encouraging people on benefits to get into education - and eventually off benefits - and therefore there will be priority places for those on benefit.

spanxaremyonlyfriend · 13/08/2010 18:29

We have a similar system but if you aren't on benefits you can't use the creche at all. Its a pita because they often have places available but you can't pay to access them.

Original poster
smellmycheese · 13/08/2010 18:30

carocaro, I have absolutely no issues with people on benefits! In fact i said twice that i'm more than happy to pay, and that if you can afford to pay then you should. My only issue is that I just felt the creche places should be first come first served for anyone, paying or not paying.

The money thing isnt my complaint at all.

OP posts:
silverfrog · 13/08/2010 18:34

hmm, it's an interesting one.

what about if Op was wanting to do the course to get back into work?

but, becasue her dh (I assume) has a well piad job, and she isn't on benefits, then she has to wait and see whether she can have a place on the course.

I would be in a similar position - only able to do the course if I could have a place at the creche, and able and happy to pay for that place.

I can see why people would say that it woudl be better for places to go to people who may be trying to come off benefits, but that doesn't help me re-train, get back to work, and in the future stay off benefits, does it?

onimolap · 13/08/2010 18:38

There seem to be two questions here:

A) accessing education -which you seem able to do; so your "right" to education has been met, and

B) accessing childcare - which you have yet to do. Assuming you are over 16 and have left full time education, I do not think there is any "right" to provision.

TrillianAstra · 13/08/2010 18:53

Silverfrog - maybe then priority should go to people who are doing work-skills courses (maths, computer skills, etc). What do you think?

zapostrophe · 13/08/2010 18:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

RunawayWife · 13/08/2010 18:53

YANBU why should someone on benefits get special treatment, it is wrong

BonniePrinceBilly · 13/08/2010 18:57

It depends if the people on benefits taking the places are doing courses designed to help them gain work. If they are doing english, IT, maths etc, fine, YABU.
However if they are also doing conversational spanish or feng shui for beginners then YANBU, no priority is fair.

MillyR · 13/08/2010 18:58

I think the situation is very unfair on people who are unemployed but have a working partner.

It also seems unfair on people who are on low incomes but don't get benefits.

JaneS · 13/08/2010 19:03

You may be able to get special consideration from the college itself.

But the main reason people on benefits get free access to education is so they can get off benefits - it's not a generous hand-out t them, but rather a pragmatic measure aimed at lowering the number of people who're unemployed.

LIZS · 13/08/2010 19:03

I suspect the issue boils down to funding and the provider can get greater subsidy per head for those on benefits as part of first steps/back to work type programmes, so needs to maximise that target group. How will they determine when everyone has signed up though ? Are you on a waiting list so that they can contact you ?

JaneS · 13/08/2010 19:04

(I think this argument is a bit like me saying that it's unfair for people with children to get extra money off the government, btw. Consider how you'd feel if someone said that about child benefit.)

Original poster
smellmycheese · 13/08/2010 19:05

I take some of your points on board. I ahd been thinking about it in more of a personal POV rather than a broad one.

Thinking deeper into it, I agree with what Trillian and Bonnie have said. Maybe the priority shouldn't have anything to do with benefits, but be for people who wish to do a course specifically in order to return to work, such as basic computer skills, maths and english.

OP posts:
MumNWLondon · 13/08/2010 19:09

YABU sorry.

You want to learn as a luxury others need courses to try and get a job.

Once she is in school/nursery you'll get free childcare like everyone else and be able to do the spanish course then.

biffandchip · 13/08/2010 19:45

YANBU. You are willing to pay for your course and your childcare. It should be on a first come first served basis.

Kaloki · 13/08/2010 19:53

I think the idea is, that as you have an income, you could afford other types of childcare. Whereas benefits can't.

Which means they wouldn't be able to do the courses that they need to get them off the benefits.

Can understand your frustration though.

All's not lost though, hopefully they'll have spaces left and you can still do your course. Will keep my fingers crossed for you.

SanctiMoanyArse · 13/08/2010 19:58

What laurie says.

Which isn;t to say that the system works: as a carer I had a palce sorted for TA training last eyar, only thing I can find to fit around boy's needs locally, and it was pulled as graduates don't get funding either, regardless of lack of actual income: which seems silly if it helps me earn.

Hope you find some childcare.

mamatomany · 13/08/2010 20:01

I really wouldn't worry about it OP I bet you get both the place on the course and the creche, but if you don't call back 4 weeks into the term because at least 50% will have left by then.

SanctiMoanyArse · 13/08/2010 20:02

'However if they are also doing conversational spanish or feng shui for beginners then YANBU, no priority is fair.

Also v true

Though in truth I spent a years as a college admissions assistant and it was generally used for vocational / educational stuff.

And it's more rationed now I think; aprents starting to elarn IT on a pension and paying (not that they complained, they never do, and I am just glad theya re learning so can keep in contact better and be able to do things like internet shop intead of having them* cycle home in rain with panniers stuffed with food all wobbly)

*Am not evil; very many miles away, wish I could help more, miss them.

LIZS · 13/08/2010 21:03

"I think the idea is, that as you have an income, you could afford other types of childcare. Whereas benefits can't."

True but it is also so that those being targetted have as few obstacles as possible to enable them to take up a place. Similarly you often find courses at Surestart centres with an onsite creche. If you want to do a course you are mroe likely an alternative way of doing so, be it a pricey nursery or childminder, whereas others will just cry off. It feels like you as an already self motivated individual are being penalised but in reality it is about offering opportunites to a wider audience.

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