to think that I should have the same right to adult education as anyone else??

[smellmycheese]

I would like to learn Spanish, as we have family there and it would be a really valuable skill.

My local adult education centre runs a course, up to GCSE level that sounds great for me.

The courses have a fee, which is already paid for if you qualify for free learning. Ie: if you're on benefits of some sort. I don't qualify, which is fine, i'm happy to pay for my own education, and agree that if you can afford to pay, you should.

The centre also has a creche, which is free again to people on benefits, but I would have to pay. Again, I have no problem with this. But I have now discovered that I have to wait until everyone has signed up to the course, as creche places for people on benefits take priority over others. So basically, if enough people take up the free places, DD cant have a paid place. This would mean I couldn't do the course, as I have no other childcare, other than a v expensive private nursery.

AIBU to expect that my wish to learn a skill and better myself should be as important as anyone else? I have no issue with paying for both the course and the creche, but am really pissed off to be told that I'm lower priority than someone on benefits who automatically gets a place before me!

I am going to go against the grain here.

I don't think the OP is being unreasonable. She has stated clearly (twice) that she is happy to pay for both the course and the creche.

I agree with her that the places should be allocated on a first come first served basis. How is she supposed to apply for the course if she cannot do so until she knows she will have childcare? So she is not only up against it for the childcare but also for getting a place on the course as presumably she will have to pay to confirm her place which she may be unwilling to do without knowing she has childcare in place.

I also may accept that for courses that have direct benefit for helping those on benefits back into work they should perhaps be given priority but in all honesty conversational spanish is unlikely to help most people in this situation is it?

Ita also unfair for people on low incomes / with a partner in work who are trying to better themselves as they wouldn't qualify for this either.

While I am all for trying to help people on benefits improve their chances of getting jobs I don't think this means they should be given special treatment in this situation. YANBU

"I really wouldn't worry about it OP I bet you get both the place on the course and the creche, but if you don't call back 4 weeks into the term because at least 50% will have left by then". You have taken the words out of my mouth because I was going to say the same. If they dont pay they wont care if they dont go because they will have lost nothing. I worked in a further education college and the majority of fee wavers very seldom completed the course.

There are limited resources and huge cuts on the way. This seems a reasonable way to organise the creche as community education are probably targetting people on benefits with limited skills and qualifications.

If you can pay for a creche, can't you pay fpr a babysitter? Round about me, some childminders offer babysitting. As do some school students.

Exactly what mamtomany and deste say.

I teach languages to adults and almost without fail the students who don't pay don't stay. Or never even turn up.

YANBU - the college should provide enough places for both paying and non-paying students. Otherwise - what are you offering to pay for? Floor space? If you pay for it, there ought to be a space for you. Hope you get one, and good luck learning spanish.

Thwe college will not necessarily ahve money for that, indiana.

That's why the OP was offering to pay for it, pointy! Otherwise, what do they spend the paying parents' money on?

I think everyone should be able to access education, self improvement should be encouraged, there's a big world out there with so much to see and learn, everyone should be entitled to do as they please, everyone should have an equal access.

There are language courses you can do at home, there are loads of courses you can do at home. I wouldn't let childcare stop you. Best of luck.

Adult education funding is being cut all the time ..

But you are suggesting bigger premises and/or more staff, indiana. To do that, costs would rise drastically, either for the paying punters or, more likely, for the college.

The college will have a remit to provide further education. It will not ahve a remit to provide childcare. However, it will recognise that some people will be excluded from education if no childcare is provided as they cannot pay for it.

The cash-strapped college/community ed dept cannot provide everyone's childcare. And I don't think they should.

Well teh nature of the childcare depends on the facillity; a great many FE colleges run it alongside chidlcare courses IME (which is fairly broad).

And I think I must be strange as i have done a few free courses in my time and always finish LOL- both when a student (so a low income) and working for a college so entitled to free study. The rules have changed since however and I am aware that far fewer people are entitled to free courses so maybe it is that factor.

I am surprised that the student advisors don;t have a list of local cherap childminders as they almost always do hold that; it was how I got my son's place when I did my access (he wasn't suited to a big Nursery). Would be worth asking perhaps? If not try a lcoal uni if you have one as they will have it.

As far as the lessons are concerned, no college will turn away someone for a Spanish class - it's unlikely the class will ever be full, anyway, but because it doesn't need specialist equipment, the size of the class is more flexible.

(I'm a college lecturer.)

I agree with you that it may mean you can't get a creche place but I'd be very surprised if you can't get one after even a few days. You'd be amazed at the drop out rate, even between enrolling and turning up for the first lesson.

We were forever turning people away but we were rural so geographical area, and there was nowhere else to travel to reasonably- the colleges in about a 50 mile radius divvied up courses pretty well so no repetition except for the very basic (eg English GCSE).

Captive audience. Always helps the numbers.

pointydog - what else would they spend the money on? Hotdogs and ice cream? If students will pay for places, that funds more staff/increase in premises. It's a fairly simple equation. Otherwise, I'd quite like to know where the money being charged of some students does go to???

To be fair, you could probably pick up GCSE-level Spanish from books & CDs at home.

Otherwise I'd agree that you shouldn't have too much difficulty getting a creche place after the inevitable early drop-outs.

I'm not sure what you mean, indiana. I would imagine a college/comm ed centre only has a limited number of rooms they can use for a creche and I doubt any FE/Comm ed institution makes much profit at all from running a course creche.

There is very little money floating around in education. They cannot afford to run creches for everyone.

The creche at the college where I work has had its hours cut ..due to lack of use

"If students will pay for places, that funds more staff/increase in premises. It's a fairly simple equation."

That assumes students pay full cost recovery. They don't.

After reading you OP, I was going to say YANBU. But after reading all the other comments I think they make a valid point- about you not needing it the same as someone using as a work skill. But then maybe it shoudln't be benifit classed but anything under "work skills" gets priority. So someone on benefits taking a pottery class should not get a space before the person paying for a maths class.

sanielle That presumes that a maths class is a better route into employment. Why? There are employed potters out there... That's a dangerous attitude, and one that leads to no funding for ANYTHING except maths, science, engineering.

tokyonambu Good point. Perhaps costs ought to reflect what it does cost to look after a child. As I understand the OP, she isn't complaining about the cost of the creche, only the lack of places available.

pointydog

"That assumes students pay full cost recovery. They don't." Exactly, atm every student is subsidised although providers can claim more per head for those on benefits and on specific courses(ie. ESOL, basic skills and work skills) which attract separate funding. Having said that only those with a reasonable level of attendance count.

I'm slightly surprised they don't allocate a proportion of creche places to those who can and will pay, if only to ensure it is viable, but resources are so tight all round and funding only likely to get tighter for Leisure courses (ie languages, art, cookery) at least over coming years once the SFA is more established.

That's fine for you to give up. Tokyonambu was making the same point as me but obviously in a more understandable way, so you've got it.