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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

for being utterly disgusted that someone tried to dob our friend in it

57 replies

Jux · 12/08/2010 22:34

Someone told the council he'd been doing some work for us and accused him of benefit fraud. We had two housing benefit officers round this afternoon, asking us about him.

Yes, he had helped do some redecorating/refurbishing. No we had not paid him.

The worst thing is, this friend had a brain haemorhage a few years ago and if he doesn't get out and about, he just vegetates at home. He is highly skilled, but he can't work; you have to keep an eye on him - has he had a drink, does he need food, does he need a rest etc. He can't do more than a couple of hours at a time without his brain becoming exhausted: if you ask him if he'd like a drink he says "I don't know" and he doesn't.

His family are surviving - just. One of his children has special needs and behavioural problems, the other has emotional issues to do with the awful thing that happened to her dad. His wife is a good honest woman who is doing her best. Used to work her socks off trying to keep the family together, but eventually had to give up work due to strain, exhaustion and depression.

This is a family battling with dreadful circumstances, and just doing their best. They are an example to everyone with their tenacity, their goodwill, their hard work, their honesty, their kindness, their generosity.

And someone who knows them thought it was a good idea to report the poor guy. And they didn't even know whether he was being paid. They made it up. It makes me sick.

OP posts:
SpringHeeledJack · 12/08/2010 23:18

I was thinking more along the lines of neighbours you can't bear/have some sort of grudge against- not blood relatives/friends

the grassing up culture is nasty and I think we lose an awful lot more than we gain from it

Asana · 12/08/2010 23:32

Hmm, I'm usually against grassing someone up ... BUT .. am sorely tempted to do this to a particular neighbour who goes on and on about "immigrants coming in and taking our jobs and paying nothing into society and driving down wages etc etc" who does LOTS of cash-in-hand work on the side of his normal business and means he can claim WTC, HA benefit etc at a level to which he is not entitled. It would make my day to see him brought down a peg or two, but I just don't think that I can bring myself to do it Confused

Then again, scottishmummy makes a good point - if we all said we wouldn't report those we know/believe to be claiming falsely as they are our family/friends/neighbours etc, then of course there will always be people to cheat the system, and that would make us complicit in ensuring that certain benefits don't go to those who are truly in need of them.

Jux · 12/08/2010 23:34

It's divide and rule imo. If the society you're in charge of is sufficiently divided amongst itself then you can get away with things you might not otherwise because the people in society are so busy protecting themselves that they don't scrutinise what is going on in government, the media, etc. and don't realise how much and how far they're being manipulated.

Anyway, off to a dark field to look at stars.

OP posts:
ChippingIn · 13/08/2010 00:08

Jux - agree with you.

(Are you really off to a dark field to look at stars? If you are Envy all I can see here is street lighting)

ccpccp · 13/08/2010 09:50

If everyone knows him, then they are all free to form their opionions of whether he is taking the piss or not.

No doubt you arent the only person he has helped. Have others paid him?

It only takes a few 'tips' from people and he is evading tax and committing benefit fraud.

We all have a duty to stamp out benefit fraud. The inspectors will see that there was nothing wrong with what he did and be on their way. Its is not their intention to cause offence.

What is of more concern though, is that the inspectors gave you any kind of detail on the 'dobber' when it is supposed to be 100% anonymous. WTF do they think they are doing?

Do you have their names? I think I might report them.

3Trees · 13/08/2010 11:02

Anyone in the mood for dobbing, feel free to dob my parents, I am sure they are up to something!

It is nasty that your friend was reported, but, it does show you how there will ALWAYS be people who just HAVE to stick ther nose in.

GeekOfTheWeek · 13/08/2010 11:34

I'm with sm.

I think the benefit fraud culture is worse than the grassing up culture.

Op, if he hasn't done anything wrong then nothing to worry about.

bumpsnowjustplump · 13/08/2010 11:43

he may not have been grassed up, dont benifit officers sometimes check up on claims? Sorry dont know for sure.. What if someone from the benifit agency had seen him go into your house and it was obvious he was working?

StuckInTheMiddleWithYou · 13/08/2010 12:00

Ok, benefit fraud is a very bad thing.

However, I would like to add a bit of perspective to this debate.

Benefit fraud costs us (according to this website) £800 million in 2009.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2009/03/02/jersey-costs-the-uk-more-than-benefit-fraud/

This site also discusses the problem of tax evasion, apparently costing £319 million over 2.75 years.

However the CAB has this figure for unclaimed benefits.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/press_office201022

Sixteen Billion

Puts all this idiotic fuss over benefit fraud apparently bankrupting the country into perspective, doesn't it?

People who "dob" their friends and neighbours in make me sick.

Jux · 13/08/2010 13:13

Yes ChippinIn, we did spend quite some time in a dark field looking at shooting stars. It was a lovely beginning to dd's birthday, who was 11 at 25 past 12. We got home at about 2am, having seen LOTS and LOTS. Be jealous, be very jealous Grin

SITMWY, thank you. Society? What society?

OP posts:
ChippingIn · 13/08/2010 17:48

I am jealous, very very jealous.

Do you think it will be worth my while driving to find a field to get wet & cold in tonight?

ccpccp · 13/08/2010 18:17

SITMWY - that tax evasion link is from a well known Labour stooge. Hes Chairman of the Tax Justice network, which is a vested interest socialist think tank if ever I saw one. Read the comments he gets to see just how much credibility he has.

Hes one of the muppets who contributed to the whole 'tax avoidance costs us a million trillion pounds!' headlines early last year, pushed out to draw attention away from Browns inability to bring bankers to boot. You cant count tax avoidance in the figures because it cant be counted towards taxation, as its perfectly legal.

Sixteen billion of unclaimed benefits just says to me that benefits are too generous!

Morloth · 13/08/2010 18:21

Can't stand a dobber.

It is us against them as far as the Revenue is concerned. Wink

scottishmummy · 13/08/2010 20:12

cant stand a dobber?i cant stand someone ripping the arse out the benefits system.thereby getting money not entitled to and adding substance to stereotypes about workshy fraudsters

many folk work hard and minimum wage,and isn't fair some chancer ripping off system

StuckInTheMiddleWithYou · 13/08/2010 22:43

ccpccp, given the similarity of your nickname to the previous handle of the Russian Federation, your derision of socialism is more than a little ironic, or was that the point?

Sixteen billion of unclaimed benefits indicates that the system is too difficult to understand. Many of those counted as "fraud" are actually commited by honest mistake. Many are also delibrate and conscious fraud, that is very true, which is an insult to both genuine claimants and the working poor. However, benefit fraud is not the great drain on state finances which the media makes it out to be.

It suits the powers that be very well to have us spying on each other, as opposed to forming some kind of genuine opposition to the constant and delibrate shafting of the poor - both working and benefit dependant.

Jux · 14/08/2010 13:18

SITMWY, so true.

It occurred to me last night that in pretty well any other time, any other society, any other age, a dobber would be a traitor, an informer, and derided, spat at, avoided etc. What has happened to us all that now they are bastions of society? Something is arse about tit.

OP posts:
Jux · 14/08/2010 13:20

ChippingIn - the shooting stars are here all month; Patrick Moore said that they would be at their peak the other night, but you'll still see them if you go now. They'll be fading towards the end of the month.

Hope you see loads Smile

OP posts:
onagar · 14/08/2010 13:38

Think the point is here that the one who reported it couldn't possibly have had good reason to do so. You might argue that they didn't have absolute proof he was acting within the law, but we don't have that about anyone do we.

So what you get with the government encouraging this is sad little people with no friends giving themselves a feeling of power by reporting their neighbours. You can tell the sort of people they are because sometimes they post on here boasting about it. It's easy to see how malicious and pathetic they are.

If we are really saying we must report all doubtful cases than we should report everybody except for those few for whom we know their exact circumstances.
My neighbour for example seems ok for money and he might be on benefits for all I know so I better report him anyway. If he isn't on benefits then no harm done right?

Where's that telephone directory. I don't know if ANY of the people in it are keeping within the law so I better report them all too.

While I'm at it I can do two for one and report them all for child neglect. Better safe than sorry.

PosieParker · 14/08/2010 13:41

sTUCK IN THE MIDDLE.......I will use those stats again and again...thanksxx

Harryan · 14/08/2010 13:51

YANBU!!!!!!

Hold your head up high for being a good friend!!!!

Wink
Jux · 14/08/2010 20:53

Exactly onagar. It really pisses me off when people do this. I know the guy and his sidekick who came round were only doing their job, and maybe they had no choice but to do that job, but from my pov they are essentially the guys that hold the coats of the bullies in the playground.

We were perfectly nice to them even though we were incredibly busy and had better things to do than talk to them, and I'm sure they didn't believe a word we said either, because they had a particular mindset and they weren't going to stray from it. I would have liked to have kicked them onto the street though, but it wouldn't have helped our friend if I had.

No wonder we don't get street parties any more, and people don't know their neighbours etc. We're all encouraged to be insular now, and stay at home - don't go out it's dangerous, don't go to the pub where it's full of smoke which will kill you, can't go to the pub where you can't smoke so stay at home and get in a six pack instead, don't talk to any one as a stray word might enrage them etc etc etc.

Actually, I'm not well, have taken some strange tablets which have sent me to an alternate universe and I'm not sure what I've said. Ignore me for the next few days.

OP posts:
floweryblue · 14/08/2010 21:14

Isn't the real problem that we would all like to see as many people as possible working legitimately as much as possible. So for people like the OPs friend, he should be able to work when he is able, and not work when he is not able.

The benefits system should be more flexible and people who are rightfully entitled to claim should also be able to use their initiative to work when they have the opportunity/feel able, declare it, and not get mired up in paperwork and late or lost benefits as a result. I can't believe how hard it is, in this computerised age especially, for people to take on temporary work without loosing or complicating their benefit claims.

And I agree that we should report fraud, if we believe it is happening, but don't the beaurocratic complications make us sympathetic to low level fraud?

mumbar · 14/08/2010 21:18

I'm unsure really how I feel about people reporting benefit fraud.

Reason being is I get some housing benefit (means tested as I work)and when I was stuck abroad this year with volcanic ash (paid for by inheritance before the affording is questioned Grin) ds childcare only charged me 1/2 price for that week. I informed council who sent me a letter to say I had been overpaid by £11.38p and that they would reclaim that off my subsequent payments and this does not mean they won't take me to court for fraud Hmm

Because of this I do think that any deliberate fraudsters should be investigated but I do not think I could personally report anyone.

Morloth · 14/08/2010 21:19

Oh it isn't rational scottishmummy but deeply ingrained into my convict soul. You do not inform the Government on your mates/neighbours (unless obviously something dangerous is happening).

Marney · 14/08/2010 21:29

My ex husband who stopped seeing his child more than ten years ago out of the blue when she was about six decided to let some one know she was living with him and her free school meals stopped .It probably seemed funny to him it was stressful for me and really difficult for me to convince the authorities i remember saying to them just park a car outside his home you will soon see she never even goes there but they said they couldnt some prvacy law i think .Some people are just mean But they can park their cars outside houses for lots of other reasons

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