Humph why can't she just accept that I've said no?

[AlegnaDnalyel]

Argh, my mother is driving me crazy.

First off I want to say that I'm very grateful for all the help she gives me both in childcare and financial. My mum helps me out a lot with the kids, will babysit at the drop of a hat, buys them toys and clothes all the time. All of which I'm very grateful for.

Her OH who she's been with for 14 years is a nice enough (if not slightly annoying) bloke. However since having dd1 7 years ago, there's something about him that makes me very uncomfortable when it comes to my dds. I can't put my finger on it really, it's a feeling I get. Sometimes I don't like the way he looks at them or touches them. Suffice to say I keep a close eye on them when he's around. Obviously I can't voice any of this to my mum as he hasn't actually done anything wrong.

I do have a bit of a trust issue with men (I have my reasons) and I'm wary of who I will leave my dds with. Only males they've ever been left with are DH (obviously) and my dad. I'm not weird about them being around other men am very relaxed about it but I do trust what my instincts are telling me a lot.

So anyway my mum has always gone on about having my dds to stay the night. I have always told her I'm not comfortable with them staying when her OH is there. Haven't said it's because of anything her OH has done, but more about my history. Which she reluctantly accepts. I have let my dds stay with her when her OH has been on holiday.

She has just gotten a new bed for her spare room and started pestering me to have them stay over again. We had another talk this morning and she said she understands and would stop asking.

So today she had me dds for the day, made cakes and pizzas with them and took them the park. Her OH was there towards the end of the day when he came home from work, but I wasn't worried as my sister was also there and knows how I feel and keeps a close eye on things.

So this afternoon I get a text from a friend asking if I fancy a night out next Friday. Check with DH and he's on a works night out on that night. So I text my mum to ask if she'll mind babysitting. Yes, no problem she says. So I text my friend back saying yes I can go out.

I then text my mum back, clarifying the date and asking if she's ok with it as it might be a late one. She then texts me back and says well I can just have the dds stay in mine then. Why say this when only this morning we had a big talk about it and she knows how I feel. Obviously she doesn't take me seriously. I then text her back and said that it's all right I won't go.

When she dropped my dds off later on she said fine I'll just stay in your's late. But I know she'll keep bringing it up about them staying over. And then when I'm out she'll be texting me all night asking when I'll be home and this wouldn't be a problem if they stayed in hers.

Argh! So I just phoned my sister and asked if she'll babysit instead, (she will). I know my mum will see her arse now, but jeez I've gone on so much about how uncomfortable I am with it. Do you think IABU? Am I overreacting? Sorry about the epic post.

Ok, the tickling thing is awful.

But you still have to address this. Your mum has to see how wrong this man's behaviour is and how much it worries you.

At the end of the day, can you really live in a family dynamic where you are sure your step father behaves inappropriately with children, but continue with family life as if he's normal?

yanbu.

Trust your instinct I say. We should do this more I think. We have all trained ourselves to ignore our instincts. Being polite is more important than listening to our gut now.

The worst that can happen is that your mum thinks it's odd you won't let them stay overnight with her.

Just read your second post!! omg - yanbu. Your mum failed to protect you and your sister from your uncle.

Definately yanbu. Sorry to hear about your past, I completely understand about your insticts and think you would be failing your children if you ignored them.

I have a friend who I have this instinct about and she is a female. It has really ended our friendship.

If something happened you would never forgive yourself.

I don't have DD's but my DH has an uncle who is completely inappropraite with female family members and I've now told DH I will not go to MIL's house when he is there. The problem is MIL frames his behaviour as "stupid but harmless". I think he is a horrible creepy fucker who needs a slap. The final straw came when he came and led next to be on the bed whilst I was BF DS and would not leave when I asked him to, I had to shout at him to get him to go away. That was it, I never want to see him again.

He comes and visits fairly often and I know there will come a time when me and MIL have a confrontation about it (I don't want him near DS either as he smokes like a chimmney) but so be it.

I say trust your instincts and just do your best to get your mum to understand. I had a horrid experience as a child and if avoiding this causes a bit of hurt and upset then that is the way it has to be.

Can your mum not possibly sleep in your bed when she stays with you and you sleep on the sofa / maybe a blow up mattress?

FindingMyMojo that's exactly it. He is the most popular charming man you could meet. Most people he meets thinks he's the bees knees. It's only me, my DH, DSD and my sister who think otherwise. Actually I've just realised that when DSD was younger before I had kids she would always make herself scarce when he was around, go up to her bedroom. She later told me it was because he made her uncomfortable.

Bathsheba I haven't expressed any of this to my mum because I don't want to start any rumours. These things once out whether they are true or not can ruin people's lives. I don't want to accuse him of anything because he hasn't actually done anything. I can't say to my mum, "Oh btw mum, I think your OH is a nonce, there's no evidence it's just a feeling I get." It would destroy her, their relationship, and because my mum has a mouth bigger than the mersey tunnel it would also ruin his life.

I have expressed my concerns to DH, DSD and my sister because I can trust them and know they won't go blabbing something like this which is a minefield. I would never mention it to my dad, he would think I was nuts. He doesn't know what happened to me and my sister as kids, or that it was his own brother and mother that did it. A few weeks back my sister was moving home after living 250 miles away. Me and DH were driving down to her to move her and her stuff, and then driving the 250 miles back home again in the same day. I originally asked my mum to have my dds in my house, but she wanted to have them in her house where her OH would be. So in the end I asked my dad to have them.

Thanks everyone on page 2 for replying too. I think whoever said that I am being a bit unfair on my mum by just letting her babysit at my convenience is right. I probably do need to scale back how much I let her have them to be fair.

YANBU

And to be honest I wouldn't trust your mum to look after DD's in the daytime when he was around. What would happen if she wanted to pop out to the shops - she'd leave them with him wouldn't she?

Very sad situation though.

I'd start looking into other childcare options TBH. If you feel that your mother can't recognise inappropriate behaviour and you obviously can't tell her what you think.

I see what you mean about her not wanting to know though- what would anyone think if they were told that someone wasn't happy for their children to be there when a certain man is around? Particularly with your family history re uncle. It's not exactly difficult to guess what the concerns are.

OP your story is horrible. And it sounds like you are right trust your mother to alone with children and partner as she might not worry about leaving them all alone together.

I wouldn't allow her partner to tickle the children at all. If he is what you think he might be... Horrible to think of him getting off on it or fixating on your children in anyway. Keep him well away. Most people would never tickle a child under their dress.. it is just respecting their privacy.

AlegnaDnalyel

I'm really sorry about the abuse you suffered as a child. You probably don't want to go into that anymore here, but when you say your Mum didn't protect you against him, did she know or even suspect at the time what was happening?

Why doesn't your Dad know??

I would tell your Mum that you are only happy for her to babysit the girls at your house at any time of day or night and the girls are never to be with him unless you are there. End of. That if she breaches your trust on this, then you wont be able to let her have them on her own. Tell her that you really, really appreciate the babysitting, gifts etc and that you understand that it may curtail her enjoyment with the girls, but due to what you went through as a child this is how it's going to be. I think it's your only solution if you don't want to tackle it head on.

I also agree with MyLeetlePony - when you are there do not play 'nice' with him anymore. If he is doing anything that is making you uncomfortable (beyond breathing) then say so.

How do you feel about getting him 'checked out' now that you can? Although, as you know, that doesn't mean he wouldn't or hasn't abused any children, just that he hasn't been caught. However, if he is on a register....

I think its fair to say trust your instincts and that you should, and I was going to say that it was reasonable enough of you not to "trust" your mother to protect the girls before you did that recent update post as I did consider that if something happened to you in your youth that to some extent, she (and your father if he was still around at the time) failed to protect you the first time round. Now you have updated that is quite clear and the fact that she wouldn't stop the tickling, for instance, means you are not on the same wave-length with this one.

YANBU in any way except, perhaps a tiny tiny bit, by putting stipulations on your mother doing these childcare favours for you. You are absolutely doing the right thing by not going with the flow as to where, when etc your daughters are there etc, BUT - sadly, you can't expect to have much in terms of help from her, its simply not fair on her.

The fact is, (and you know this, so I'm not lecturing you, just musing really) if you dont have anyone "appropriate" to look after your kids overnight or really late into the evening, then you dont go out. I dont have any family members nearby and therefore, I have not had a night away with my husband since my son was 13 months old when I went to my best friend's wedding about an hour away and we stayed over. Left him with the inlaws, it was fine at that age and he was our only child in those days.

But now there are 2 of them, they are more demanding, they have only ever been put to bed by me or my husband, etc, we dont go away on dirty weekends or weddings etc. We do have a babysitter we use for late nights, but we always have to get up the next morning. (Tequila - it seems like a good idea at the time, but not the next day with 2 bouncy children)

You might have to slide into this camp for a while - it doesn't sound like you can get too much in terms of childcare from your mum.

YANBU.

After reading your posts I think it's best you trust your instincts and YANBU. The tickling incident made me feel very uncomfortable on your behalf.

I would stop relying on your mum for babysitting though because it's putting you all in a difficult position. To be honest, I would have thought she would mention to her OH that you don't want him around when the DDs are there overnight and they would have confronted you about it. It seems a strange situation where she can appear to (usually) accept you don't want him around but not then act upon what this implies or stand up to you.

My take on this is that you can't ever risk this man being left alone with your DC. For this reason I think you have to discuss it with your mum. I know you don't want to hurt her or cause trouble, but there will be a lot of hurt and trouble if something happens to your DDs.
At the moment your mum is attributing your feelings wrt her partner to what has happened in your past, rather than what is happening in the present. I honestly think you have to tell her what you have told us or she won't see what is wrong with leaving him alone with the kids when she nips out on an errand. Going on what you've told us, I think you are right to feel his behaviour is creepy.
Also if I was involved with a man that gave other people a weird feeling, I would want to know. Your mum would probably want to know too and if nothing else, it might make her a bit more aware and that can only be good for your children.

How can you trust her with them in the daytime if he is around? And if he has already been inappropriate why is he allowed around them at all?

actually i'd go one step further and attempt at least, to stop them having contact with him.

but that's just me.

Have to agree, that I wouldn't want him around the kids at all. Should have made that clear earlier.

I think you're right actually I am going to have take it up a notch and ask if she only babysits them at my house. And also try and see as little of him as possible. It's really not something I want to deal with at all, but obviously that's just life.

Jeez life would be so much easier if my parents were still together.

I've just read your long post and I agree with the other posters - you shouldn't be leaving your DC's in their house at all, day or night. If you mum couldn't look after you and your sister and protect you, then she will turn a similar blind eye again if the situation arises

BUT

as I said, you shouldn't then rely on your mum for babysitting. I can see you've no alternatives - neither do a lot of people. The solution - don't go out or find someone else you can trust

I've been thinking about this a bit more. I think - your poor mum. She loves her grandchildren and wants to spend time with them, and has done a lot in the past to help you out. So it would be pretty sad if you were to end up in a situation where you felt you couldn't let her much time with them anymore.
You're sort of damned if you do, and damned if you don't. However, I think that there is a lot of air to be cleared between you and your mum about what happened in your traumatic past. It would be hard, but could you sit down with her, with a third party present if needed, and talk to her about it? That might open the door for you to tell her that, rightly or wrongly, because of what happened to you as a child, you don't feel happy with the way her partner is with your children, and you don't want him to be with them unless YOU are present. I don't see how you can reduce her involvement without some sort of explanation. Also, I don't see how you can carry on for the rest of your life without talking to each other about your childhood abuse.
I was subjected to mental abuse by my stepdad. I think I always felt let down by my mum because she let it happen. A few years ago we talked about it, and both got more understanding of what was happening and why. I feel that you need to do the same, come to an understanding between you, and having done that, you might find it easier to deal with the problems with her partner.
Just some thoughts.

Myleetlepony, thank you for replying. I think you're right I probably do need to have this out with my mum. I do partly blame her for the abuse (rightly or wrongly). I think she was far too trusting and she actually left my dad when we were teenagers. Me 17 and my sis 13. I'd already left home by then, but she left my little sister with my dad. My uncle stayed over frequently, my sister won't talk to me about those years. We've only got as far as acknowledging to each other that we have both endured some sort of abuse, and I then went on to tell my mum. I guess I blame my mum for not protecting us, which is why I feel so vigilant in protecting my dds.

I honestly can't see me ever being able to open up properly to my mum without opening a can of worms for both myself and her. I have honestly managed to suppress most of my memories and I don't really want them resurfacing. I think I probably need counselling, but 1) I can't afford it, and 2) I'm too bloody scared!

AlegnaDnalyel

I am sorry.

Here are some charities that may help- I am not an expert in this area though

national association for people abused in childhood

MIND mental health charity has details of cheap, student counsellors

books for survivors of childhood abuse

You can try your GP for help as well?

Family counselling with your mum and sister might not be such a bad idea either.

Hopefully someone will be along with some more helpful advice in a mo. Sorry that you're having to go through this again.

Havent read the whole thread (Sorry ) but where do you live?

Sarahs law was bought in for things JUST like this surely?

I've been thinking about this...

How about just letting your Mum's OH know that you're on to him (if he is up to no good)/letting him know that in this day and age he needs to be careful how he is around kids (if he's harmless but misguided).
I.e. with the tickling incident - perhaps if you'd sent your DD off to play in a different room, said in front of your Mum and her OH "Look, you need to be careful, tickling like that isn't appropriate and you'll get yourself a name as an old perv - haha" - comes across like you're thinking in his best interests, but lets him know you're on to him and to back off? Also puts the idea in your Mums head that she needs to be careful?

I have no experience of situations like this, so this may be a daft suggestion. It just made me think of when one is on the tube and some one grabs your arse "would the man behind me kindly take his hand off my bottom?" cue much embarrassment to perpetrator.

Obviously it would mean letting another sort of nasty tickling incident arsie which isn't a nice idea - but perhaps something to bear in mind if ever a situation does arise again?

I agree with the PP who suggested counselling for you.

On here, it is impossible for anyone to say whether it is your perception of the event, or whether he is actually dodgy because everything we read is mediated by your perception and therefore your description of the events. I therefore think whatever anyone says here will be of limited use, because we can only ever get one perspective of the events and we are not experts.

I think therefore, speaking to a counsellor will be of great benefit to you - it should help you to see the wood from the trees. Hopefully, they will be able to help to you see whether your feelings are caused by instinct or whether it is a projection caused by what happened to you. Further more, they could then help you move forward with strategies with your family.

I agree that if your mum thinks the problem is your past rather than her man, then she probably thinks she needs to help you get over this, and will continue to try to "push" you towards having a more 'traditional' relationship with them (i.e. having them over to sleep). Unless she knows what the problem is, I don't think she will stop pushing. I think you need a different tact there. What that is though, I don't know and this is why I think a counsellor could help you work through this and negotiate a way forward.

And good luck. I agree you should trust your instincts for now, and protect as best you can... but really, you know that is not a long term solution and I think a counsellor will help you to find one!

AlegnaDnalyel FWIW, and I know my opinion was the minority, after reading what you have written about the tickling and his other behaviour etc. I have revised my opinion and no longer think you are being unnecessarily paranoid! It does sound odd and I there are many people who haven't been through what you have, who would be uncomfortable too.

Very hard situ though and I feel for you.

D