to think this is toally out of order and more than a bit strange?

[FallingLeaves]

I am 100% a very regular poster, I have NC because if the person involved reads this she will know immediatly that its me!

Its my MIL.

She took my sons out for the day last Saturday, they are 4 and 5.

Today she comes to visit, on her way out she chats to DH outside, DH returns with a piece of paper which he puts on the side.

About 30 mins later I go to read it.

it says:

7th August:

Discussion of Death and Heaven with (ds1) and (ds2)

thats the title and it goes on to have a full A4 page 'report' of her taking them to her fathers grave and discussing death, heaven and jesus.

I am really angry TBH, they are babies, they don't need to know any of that!

It has quotes of things my boys have said during this outing and they have upset me too, she has caused them to think of their own and each others deaths. Why would children so small need to do that?!

I know this sounds like I'm making it up - but I'm not, I don't know what to do, I'm going to have this deleted ecventually because I'm scared she will see it,

but its totally weird isn't it??

DH said he planned to bin it before I saw and and said his mum is a 'nutter'

Shes a reception teacher FFS!

oh and in fact,you dont have to say anything,
your dp does!

That's actually quite morbid and odd, she should NOT be doing this, and this comes from someone who has lost a parent, and quite young, its a) not her place, and b) the world is a depressing enough place, when they ask, they ask, you deal with it,l but having a master plan for brooching it is odd at that age

She sounds very self centred and obviously wants to share this with them, but why?!

hahahahah

DH saying something??

thats a laugh,

he wouldn't dare say anything to her.

Hmm, I'm not sure if YABU...? (I'm not used to being the lone voice in AIBU so be gentle, please!!)

I have told my dds all about death (because my dad and grandmother have died since they have been born) and they are now 5 and 3. I told them aboout Heaven and Jesus because that is what I believe(and I accept 100% that you may not believe the same, and MIL should have respected that).

However, I think she did the right thing in leaving you the report as it prepares you for what they discussed tgether, and for any subsequent questions that may now arise. Perhaps she left the report as she felt too fragile/embarrased to discuss it with you face to face? In this respect, I feel she did the right thing.

you have to say something - she has to know this is out of line and upset you and DS. If she gets upset, tough, she should have realised that this isn't a normal fun trip out with Granny. (Seriously, what's wrong with taking them to play on the swings?)

we live near a graveyard so the discussion had to come up with my ds1 (4) as we sometimes walk through it. i think you are reacting because of your own issues with death. i think MIL was rather odd about it, but obv has her own issues too - and you have just pushed each other's buttons.

but no, they are not too young to learn about death.

For me it would depend who initiated the discussion. You say they've already been to a graveside with you so you're presumably ok with her taking them to her father's grave? Is there any chance that they started asking questions and she was just answering them as best she could? And then wrote it all down as she was aware it was a 'big' subject and you might want to know exactly what was said?

My 5yo is very curious about death...and asks loads of questions about it despite me feeling like she's too young to be told about it yet.

Nobody will convince me its normal to "educate" a 3/4 year old on death and its many mechanisms when there is absolutely no need - its difficult enough for adults to adjust their thoughts to, and really doesnt need to be something they do with granny on a day out FFS!!

IMHO she shouldnt have said anything in the first place.
certainly not without asking op first!
its just insane!
and if he wont say anything, and i think he should,then i guess its up to you,but honestly...dont wait for it to get weirder...

How dare she! Maybe you should write her some feedback on her report, and ask to see her lesson plans in advance in future.

It's not her place at all. Certain "conversations" are the prerogative of the parents, writing a report in the aftermath doesn't make up for it, she overstepped the mark. Even when a small child asks awkward questions there are ways a half-intelligent adult can sidestep them without giving the whole "talk".

Why visit a grave on her day out with the kids, she can do that on her own time without having to raise issues and let you do the grave visiting.

This reminds me a little of a conversation I had with my mother, who cares for my niece and nephew a couple of days a week, apparently my 3 year old niece had asked her where babies came from, she neatly avoided giving any information at all, then warned her mother it might come up again, so she could decide what to tell the kids. My mother was wanting confirmation she had handled this tactfully enough, I think she got it spot on.

paisleyleaf pmsl! might use that one myself!

Yes, rather bizarre!

I did have to ask my MIL a few years back about that fact that she, apparently, told him that all the dead people were sitting on a cloud with Jesus.

I found this out because my son asked me where my mum [decreased] had gone. I told him. He then told me I was lying and got quite annoyed with me! I think he was two or three at the time.

Had a few discussion since about the difference between what we believe and what they believe and our right as parents to our son up as we chose. Tactfully, I hope. To their credit they have respected our wishes.

I would be absolutely livid if my MIL did this. It's a conversation that parents have with their DC, when they feel the time is right.

Agree that you DH shouldn't be hiding this from you. In doing so, he is colluding in something that he knows you would object to. That is simply not on.

For me this would be a breach of trust and I would no longer let my MIL have unsupervised access. I think you must be able to trust the person looking after your children to not do things with them that you, the parent would be opposed to.

If you say nothing, she will continue to do as she sees fit, so you either stand up for yourself or she will continue to make parenting decisions for you

cupofteaplease - the difference is that you have told your DC about death. The fact here is that granny took the kids to a graveyard and gave them a 'lesson' on death/dying and instigated them thinking about their own and each others deaths.

If they'd seen a dead animal and asked questions off of their own bat - no problem... doing a lesson for them - BIG problem.

(was that gentle enough??)

FallingLeaves - I hope if you don't get anything else out of this thread, you can at least see that the way you feel isn't just down to any issues you have around death x

Bit torn on this one, think MIL was certainly being odd and it was not really her place to initiate this kind of conversation, but on the other hand it was probably best for her to record the conversation so that you and dh can pick it up or challenge things she has said that you don't want your dcs to believe/ have heard unchallenged.

I know that things children say about death can be shocking/upsetting/worrying but I would reassure you that your dc's comments sound very normal, my ds has said all the same sorts of things- brought on by a visit to the local Egyptian mummy when he was three. He was always most freaked out by the idea that he didn't exist before he was born- 'you mean I was nowhere???' and less phased by the very atheist perspective we gave him. Nursery staff were v concerned when he told all his friends his beliefs about death and dying though...

TBH I think my supposedly adult understanding of death and dying barely differs from my 4yo's- my grandma died recently and I was despearately sad, didn't understand it, was very scared to see her body, wondered if she was looking down on me, thought a lot about what life means, got panicky about anyone else I love dying etc etc

Are you going to say something to MIL?

TBH I think a child's understanding

Dunno why one of my sentences appeared twice...

Just to add, I do agree it is a parent's place (and responsibility) to do the big talks, if the child is lucky enough to have its parents.

Also, if it's the religiosity you object to, just offer a different perspective- good for the dcs to know that adults have different answers for things at times, and the adults are trying to make sense of it all too.

Maybe she was trying to save you from having to discuss it with them if you have fears around it? Perhaps she thought they were at the age where they start asking those sort of questions and she would address them so you don't have to?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I think she was totally out of order and this is a subject which should be dealt with by you and dh, and not a third party no matter hwo well-meaning she may be.

You will have to set some boundaries before she starts giving them lessons on sex and drugs etc.

Still, at least you know what was said; my MIL wouldn't even have told me she'd talked about it; if she ever has I would have no knowledge of it at all, unless dd told me herself.

I agree with Cupoftea- that maybe this visit was a springboard for further discussion and she noted it down for your reference? She maybe didn't take them their with the sole intent of giving them a 'lesson'.

Since you have already taken them to visit a deceased family members grave, she may have assumed it would be ok for her to do so?

No idea why I'm trying so hard to see it from another point of view....but in the grand scheme of things, it's not awful. Hopefully the visit will also have opened their eyes to other issues- other peoples beliefs, respecting others, spending time with grandma etc

As long as you continue the dialogue, they'll be fine.

I must say, I was a bit reading this. Taking it at face value, of course MIL is out of order and it sounds like there was an intent on her part from the start to take the DCs to the grave and talk (OP, do you know if it was planned that way? Or if it was a spontaneous conversation that was sparked while at the grave?).

My gut instinct is to think that she has backpeddled on what she's said and the essay she has written is her way of handing over responsibility for the conversation. She may realise she is in the wrong and this is her highly bizarre way of saying so. Of course, I might be being too generous there, she could be entirely out of line and just giving you a rundown of what happened.

I do agree with what Jux said though, whatever her intent or motivation here, you really do need to nip this in the bud now, otherwise you'll find that MIL is teaching your DCs about sex and other subjects that are the responsibility of the parents alone.

And FWIW, I don't think there is a correct age to teach children about death. I'm very much of the mindset that you take these conversations as they come at you, and what's right for one child and family won't necessarily be right for another. A child may lose 10 relatives by their fourth birthday. A horrible scenario (and one I hope no child ever has to go through), but that child is going to be more in need of the sensitive death talk than a child of the same age who has faced no loss. It's all very relative to whatever has gone on in their lives.

No matter what though, it's still a decision for the parents to make, and your MIL is still out of line.

Gosh at the risk of getting flamed... i might have been mildly surprised if this happened to my dd but actually quite positive

who says we can control all information about complex issues for our dcs... life is full of good and bad and we have to allow our children surely to encounter experiences and relationships (safely) which uncover this for themselves

i would like to think we should be there to unfold and explain, rather than to exclude them from such experiences and encounters
with other content-givers, other wise what boring ( and impossible ) life to hear the truth from nobody but their parents. even at four and five - kids are capable of so much understanding

Do you know what, as many of you get older, things will seem so important. They didn't when I was younger either.

Think about the things that suddenly became important when you got with a partner/married/had your first house.

One of the things that I felt, after a long hedonistic journey, resulting in marraige, was that some of the things my older people were saying, I bloody agreed. They were right.

I am not saying that everyone who is old is right, but sometimes a bit of provenance (helpful with parents) is really good as it reduces future arguments.

id be upset becuase it is my place to parent and teach my children about htese things and if i required my mils help i would ask her.

fucking weird as fuck to write a report though - what a nobber

and also ditto yikes she explains it better