To be shocked at how much we would get in tax credits if I did not work

[peppapighastakenovermylife]

I sense this thread might go wrong - I do not mean it to. I am not saying people should not receive the money, nor that they should be forced into work. I am just shocked at how much we would get!

Bit of background. My job is at risk so looking at worst case I wanted to see what we would be entitled to if I was made redundant. I expected it to be very very little.

I put our details into the tax credits website and based on me staying at home with the DC's and DH continuing to work full time we would get £600 a month . That is not considering any other benefits which we might be entitled to (DH earns around 18k)

Ok so that is not a huge amount of money to live on but after childcare costs that is more than I have left over after working full time in a well paid job!

I fully admit I enjoy my job and working. I also get more out of it than salary - pension, fulfillment, career advancement. Also, childcare costs are a relatively short term thing - in four years once all DC are in school they will come down considerably (they are very high at £1400 a month now).

I have no intention of leaving my job but it does make me wonder why I am missing my DC's, running round like a mad fool organising childcare and picks ups and am absolutely exhausted and dont have much time for myself when I am in the short term worse off financially.

It is nice to know there is the safety net though I guess although I now understand why some people make it a choice not to work (and I mean some not everyone who doesnt work, stays at home etc). I genuinely never expected it to be that much. I guess it will also be at risk with the current government.

If you want an accurate calculator, go to entitledto.com and click on the "start benefits checker" bit.

The big difference is childcare though isn't it? I am on my own with DS and when I have my lone parent meeting things they always come out with us being better off if I was working, but that's only on paper, it doesn't account for the fact I'd be spending out on childcare (although it's subsidised it's not 100% I don't think), travel expenses, and then all the little extras like not being able to get internet shopping delivered if I am out during the day (and I don't drive so can't physically carry a week's shopping home) and likely buying more convenience foods etc. I let DS run around without nappies on some of the time at home and rarely use baby wipes, two things I have heard nursery use lots of.

And then I just wonder whether it's good for him to be in nursery so young, and he sees his dad every weekend so if I was working full time I would barely see him at all :(

I am hugely grateful to be able to have the choice to stay at home with him (and am not doing entirely nothing as starting part time degree in Oct assuming all goes well - and I may not get help with childcare for this so we really will be on the breadline) but I agree it is odd that staying at home makes people better off. I guess in a perfect world it would be equal, the bottom line is if you are unqualified and likely to only earn minimum wage, there is no financial incentive for working.

Sunshine - you can be working and still not be able to make ends meet. It's galling when you know that you can make the same amount by giving up the job you have, and the stress that it brings, by claiming tax credits. As I said earlier, the previous Govt set up a system which effectively makes it more attractive for some people to stop paying as much tax into the the Govt coffers.

whats the website peppa? do you have a link? i would be interested in having a look at it.

Lougle - yes thats the point. I earn around £1800 a month after tax, student loan deductions etc - so more than a decent wage. Its just the childcare that eats it up. Working things out roughly I therefore earn £2 per hour (oh and pay to park, pay to get to work so less than that!).

However I fully recognise and take responsibility for this as our children were planned. It is also not forever.

I am just shocked that by working and paying taxes I am worse off. However I also recognise that on one level I am privileged to have a good job, be able to work etc etc. This really isn't an anti benefits thread.

Thesunshines I am not suggesting people are living a highlife on benefits - I am just shocked at the lack of difference in overall income between me working or not working!

supervixen - I just used the HMRC tax credits calculator.

Bertiebotts - that sums it up really doesnt it. Wanting to work v cost of actually working with guilt of working thrown in. Sometimes I think it would have been simpler 30 years ago when women were all expected to stay home (not really but you know what I mean).

Violethill - yes I guess things will change. I just wish I had know about this 4 years ago when I had DS. I dont think it would have affected my decision to work but the number of times my job has been under threat or I have been on a short term contract (or making myself ill by working too many hours) - I would have done a lot less worrying if nothing else.

My job is also at risk, but I have never done this before.. you inspired me.

Up to now, I have been earning c. £27K but when I go back to work part-time, it will be only £14,300. Dh's salary is in the mid-30K range. So we would get £534 with 1 child.. maybe I'm not doing it right, but I would get this if I worked and if I didn't?

That's about twice what I'll get net, I think.. but my childcare is about £600 a month...

You really are better off hanging on in there peppa. I do know how you feel.
There was many a wet November morning when we'd be getting our 3 kids up at 6 am, dropping one at the CM before school, and 2 at nursery, before heading off to do a full days work and then hand over every penny in childcare, when I'd think "Why on earth are we doing this?!"

However, 18 years down the line, I am further in my career than I ever expected, and have watched various friends who gave up work really struggle to get back into even quite menial jobs. We have a good standard of living, we have good pensions, and I think its also instilled a good work ethic in our children - so definitely worth it in the long term.

Over the next couple of years the number of people that claim tax credits will be reduced. I think anyone earning over £25k will be lucky to recieve them.

And I guess the amount that those earning under £25k can claim will be tapered off.

I certaintly wouldn't be using any current calculator to work out tax credits I could claim because are going to claim so dramatically and quickly that those calculations will date very quickly.

claim *change

You have to factor in how much you would be saving the economy by not working and looking after your own children instead of using childcare though.

FWIW, we actually get much more in tc now I work, and I'm sure it will go up even more now we are claiming for some childcare as well.

They'll be getting reduced soon enough I'm sure.

I am not able to work at the moment due to moving to an area where the job situation is never brilliant and being pregnant (yeah, no employer will touch me with a barge pole especially as I already have a dc). Anyway my dp and I have had to claim tax credits as he earns £18,000 and that on it's own will not cover rent, bills, food etc.

Anyway, we get £400 a month in child tax credits, dp's salary is too high for working tax credits and obviously we don't claim childcare as I am able to do that. I have worked for most of my adult life (apart from 3 years of so after dd was born and even then had on and off p/t jobs), so I don't feel I am ripping the state off by claiming what I need when I do not have a job.

I am not a fan of living off benefits, but I also get annoyed when people start kicking off about what people shouldn't get when they are able to work. I plan to go back to work alot sooner after this baby is born than I did with dd as I prefer to work, in fact I am looking to re-train. £400 a month is sooo not a better than a wage when working, so I really do not see it as the easy option!

Oh and bythemoonlight you are right about the claim calculator being out of date. DP checked the figures before we moved (in May) and by the time we claimed (last month) he was illegible for working tax credit, whereas the calculator said he would receive it.

This does not sound right to me at all.

Our family is reliant on benefits (I'm a full time university student about to complete my third year) and I have three young children at home. We are certainly not entitled to £600 a month, and we don't have a second wage coming into the house.

I also do not have a flat screen tv or a car, or money for days out, we never have a holiday etc etc just incase anyone was wondering!

Jaquelinehyde, being a student buggers up your position, you'd be better off making your other half get a job for 16 hours and you say nothing about studying.

The whole point of WTC is you get more for working more hours. Hence why ours almost doubled when I started work. You get more for working, then it starts to go down when you get paid more.

I suppose to get the most tax credits (if you really were making life decisions on things like that ) you would want two diabled children under one in full time childcare while you and DP work over 30 hours for minimum wage. Oh and you and DP would have to be disabled too.

If that makes sense- more for having children, more for them being babies, more for childcare, more for working over 30 hours, more for being on a low income, more for disabilities. If you don't have one of those things, it will reduce.

We got hardly any when we were both out of work- just the basic rate of ctc for the one child (over one) that we had at home, being non-disabled.

It takes a bit to get your head round it, but it does actually make sense in the main, unless you are unlucky enough to be on a borderline somewhere (eg working 15 hours doesn't count as working, but 16 hours does, even if you are actually being paid less)

In fact, I just did entitledto again and realised we could be getting a small amount more from something I didn't think we could get. It is very complex, which is very unfair. It means that people are going without, but are still stigmatised but a very few are playing the system. I have lost count of the amount of friends who I have had to tell that they are missing out on money, and they have been really struggling. :(

Unfortunately, the poor don't have accountants.

TSC - so you can tell your HV that DC3 was indeed planned and does she not know how much more you can claim in benefits with 3DC

"Unfortunately, the poor don't have accountants." So true ButterpieBride. I met an old friend recently who was struggling and didn't know to claim DLA, even though her DD is severely disabled. The system desperately needs to be simplified.

OP, YANBU.

As a single parent I find it interesting that single parents who choose to stay at home with their children are easy targets for criticism when couples with only one parent working and claiming quite a lot in tax credits are seen to be more respectable. I think it's easier to work with two parents at home as you can share pick ups/ drop offs aswell as taking days off etc...and by the way I work...

Agree boiledegg - the system is ridiculously complicated; however it does seem very likely it'll be simplified,as well as radically pruned, so that's good

I don't know how accurate these on-line calculators are, our household income is not as much as many quoted and we certainly don't get as much Tax Credit as the calculators suggest - I think an actual claim would show a different picture. It's doubtful anyone is getting rich on benefits unless they are being less than honest in their claim.

There seems to be a lot of concern that SAHM's are not contributing to the ecconomy, however it is these women who very often are right in the middle of the volunteer workforce ... running toddler groups, volunteering in schools and lots of other areas, so contributing to society in a different but equally as important way. Life is really not all about money.

I guess whatever side of the fence you are on the grass is always greener on the other side.

TSC - I don't know either - but it was starting to do my bloody head in!! I'm just waiting for someone to ask how you can have the house you have & the coffee beans on £17k a year (having completely missed your change in circs which you have posted about several times!!). I'm having to avoid another thread too because they are so fucking thick I might have to crawl through my screen and batter one of them