difficult choice re: christening - please come and sort me out!

[sterrryerryoh]

Hi all.
This is more of a ?what IS reasonable in this situation? rather than ?AIBU? as I haven?t come to any decisions or done anything yet. I?m hoping for some viewpoints to steer me in the right direction.
Background: Our DS age 12 months is adopted. We?re in the process of having the adoption finalised, and waiting for the court order to come through later this month(a formality).
When we were in the process of waiting to be placed with him, we had several meetings with SS, Family Finders and various people in order to finalise the paperwork for the adoption plan. To make this very brief - the adoption plan is unique to each adoptive family and is comprised of firstly what is best for the child, and then a combination of birth family needs, contact arrangements, and adoptive family needs. As part of our adoption plan we agreed to have DS christened once the adoption was finalised. This was at the wishes of his birth mother. Now that time is almost upon us, we are starting to think about his christening. I am not a christian, and neither is DH, and if we had got a biological child, then we wouldn?t be planning a christening. Some family members and friends ARE christians, and are looking forward to the christening, and trying to help us organise it, and are coming up with lots of ideas about what we should do. Now, in my head this was always going to be a small affair - to go and christen him with a few witnesses, have a small celebration afterwards, take some photos and job done. However, it?s not really working like that in practise. So many (lovely) people want to come and be part of it, my Mum?s best friend is a newly qualified priest and has offered to do the service, and everyone is really getting involved, which is wonderful and welcoming. However, this christening is getting bigger and bigger, with people offering to do the flowers, asking us what gifts we want, offering to come shopping with me for gowns etc, planning where we are going to have the ?party? and all sorts of things. The trouble is, I don?t feel comfortable with going to town on it - it is not our choice to have him christened, and I feel like such a hypocrite. And it?s very hard to talk to these people and explain that I don?t believe in their God, but am expecting their church to be OK with that. On top of this, my Mum?s best friend (the vicar) has just advised me that we have to go to these pre-christening services for 4 weeks before the christening,if we want her to do it and she said it?s ?quite intense?. Now, she knows that I?m not a christian (although I?m very involved in lots of community stuff, which tends to centre around the church) but I get the feeling that she thinks I ought to be.
So - where do I go? Should I just think ?Well, I?ve got to do it anyway, so we might as well go for the big one? which I already feel uncomfortable with, and can?t really afford, or should I stick to my ?small service? and hope that people don?t feel offended if they are not invited/included - including my Mum?s friend?
Oh, I just don?t know! I do hope I haven?t upset or offended anyone with this post - I am very respectful of the christian faith, but I am not a christian, I don?t enjoy church services, and if I go to christenings, I don?t vocally participate. Which is another thing!!
Please help me? what is the reasonable option here?

sorry that was such a long post (shameless bump)

I think you are being very honest, and that your attitude deserves applause. So many people go through the form of the christening service without paying the smallest attention to it that means. You are allowed to be real with the vicar - any vicar worth his/her salt will try to understand your situation and advise accordingly. Hope it all goes well...

i feel for you, i am 100% atheist but also do community/youth work which is based at the church hall and i spend a lot of time with christians who assume i am because of the community work i do.

in your position i would choose some genuinely christian godparents who know your position and understand you and pretty much hand over responsibility for most of the decisions to them.

that way your DS has some godparents in his life who can tell him about christianity and leave that door open for him if he wishes.

How can you not include your mum's friend? Do you mean hold the service somewhere else? I would say go small and choose a godparent who you know is definitely Christian and then you will have done your duty by the adoption plan. I wouldn't worry about feeling hypocritical as you are meeting the promises at the christening to bring the child up in the faith by delegating to the godparent.

and congratulations on your new DS!

This must be so hard for you, sterry - I think fluffles has some good advice re: proper christian godparents, as that way you don?t have to ?actively? promise to raise your DS in the christian faith (well, you do - I think - but you will have other people to advise you on it)
With regards to the christening itself - you obviously would prefer the smaller service but are worried about upsetting well-meaning people. Could your Mum have a word with her friend about the service, and explain that you don?t want a big fuss? Is your Mum a christian?

Let's start with the non-variable here, which is that you have to have a Christening. It is unfortunate that your beliefs do not reconcile with those of the birth mother, but that's neither your fault, nor something you should feel guilty about. From there onwards, everything is ultimately your decision.

The last family Christening I went to involved myself, my brother and sister (and their offspring and partners) and my mother and stepfather. My DNs parents do not go to church and were not asked to go for a month before either. The day was kept simple (in fact that 'party' afterwards was held at my home and consisted of tea and cakes, everyone thought it was quite sweet!).

The problem with your specific dilemma is that both options are reasonable. You could treat the occasion as a general celebration of your son coming into the family and have the Christening as a part of that (rather than the focus of it) which may placate your own feelings on the matter and might justify the bigger fuss being made.

That said, if you really do feel like you can't go through with a big occasion, you are going to have to decide that the strength of your feelings on the matter are worth potentially causing some tension. Which is not to suggest that you should compromise just to keep the peace btw, but it is an option.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. Try to remember, there isn't a wrong answer here, you're just in a difficult situation :).

Personally, I'd go with what you had originally planned - the small ceremony.

I don't know anything about christenings but would assume you can't just turn up at church and have your baby christened - wouldn't you have to attend church and/or classes anyway?

Would a naming day or similar be acceptable to your child's birth mother? If you perhaps wrote 'vows' to show how you'd commit to being good parents and how you're going to parent your child and let your son's birth mother see those (if you're in contact).

The thing is, as you're not religious, I'd assume you're not going to raise him in a religious way, so I don't see what difference having him christened would make iyswim.

It's your choice and it must be something you're happy and comfortable with.

Hope it goes well.

This is soooo difficult. DH is a Christian so our DDs were christened because it was what he wanted. I didn't feel particularly comfortable with the promises you have to make because, like you, I don't usually vocally participate.

I had to decide that I was doing no harm by going through with it and that my DDs were being welcomed into a church that they may choose to participate in when they are older.

I, also like you, value the church for what it gives to our community - I'm even on the cleaning rota - but I don't believe and never will.

I think the vicar should understand your position if you decide not to participate actively in the service. You are fulfilling a commitment to the birth mother and that should be important to the clergy shouldn't it?

Apart from the service I thought of the day as a way to celebrate the birth and welcome our children into the family and the community. Could you do the same?

Have a chat with the vicar about your feelings. There are going to be lots of non-believers getting children christened (myself included, but DH does want her christened and holds some belief but that's another story) And don't go for the big blow out if you don't feel comfortable with it.

Do you have to get DS christened as a baby? Would it be possible to do it when he's a bit older and get yourself some breathing space first? To be completely honest, I understood that when a child was adopted the birth parent gave up any right to have any say in their life - would there be any comeback if you didn't get DS christened at all?

It sounds as though you are doing your best to honour what your ds's bitrh mother wanted, but that it is now becoming something that she didn't ask for and that you don't want (or can afford).

I'd say the most important thing is that you and your dh are not put in a position where you are doing things / promising things that you do not believe in. So the sound of the pre-christening services does not sound right.

Is there anyone else who can do a baby christening in a quieter way? For example, there are interfaith ministers link here who could help you create a ceremony that includes as much religion/spirituality as you as comfortable with.

Then you could have a bigger party with all the people who want to celebrate the wonderful-ness of your son. I am sure that you could explain to your Mum's friend that you want to something quietly, then perhaps at your party you could ask her to have an "official" role and offer a blessing or prayer, and say a grace before anyone eats.

So you could have a quiet christening to honour the wishes of ds's birth mother (without compromising your beliefs) followed by a baby blessing to include all the others who want to celebreate and contribute. Would that work for you?

Thank you, sequins. Sorry - when I said ?not include my Mum?s friend? - she is a vicar at my Mum?s local church, and has offered to do the service there for us. (this is the church in the community that I know well) - my other option was to have the christening at MY local church, and invite my Mum?s friend as a guest - although now I?ve written that down, I realise that actually, it probably doesn?t matter where I have it, the vicar will (quite rightly) probably expect us to have an investment into the preparation for the christening.
I think I?m just worried that she might use it as an opportunity to ?convert? me in some way - I know that sounds a bit paranoid, but she does try and encourage me to ?come along to church? and get me involved in various things, and I suspect she would take this opportunity. She is a lovely woman, and this post isn?t really about her, but I think if she were to take the service, the potential for it to become big and ?showy? would be increased.
Kingnothing, yes my Mum is a christian, and I know she is thrilled that we?re having a christening, and can?t wait!
Fluffles - that?s the position I am in - lots of community/youth work in an around the church, but not a church-goer (I live outside the parish) - but I think most of the people I come into contact with on a regular basis, just assume that I am a christian, and I love them and don?t want to change things by having openly theological differences with them.
You know, the more I write stuff down, the more I think I?m being a bit silly. I?m so lucky to have these people who want to welcome my son into their lives. But as a non-christian I feel so weird and almost fraudulent about it. I just want it small and simple. gah!!!

My first reaction is that all your Christian friends and family really want to welcome your baby into the wider family. And thats a good thing isnt it?

But you have your own reasons -not to mention money-for not having the runaway ,full-on celebration they all want. So what about a compromise? The baby has to be christened and why not have Mums friend do it just to please your Mum ? But that doesn't have to be a big church do though. A very scaled down family only affair is a viable option.

I would follow that up with an afternoon garden party -people can bring food to contribute and let those who choose to give presents of a Christian nature. Others will just come to welcome the newest member of your family with toys etc.

It is really your call so remember ,when it comes to standing by your principles-those that matter dont mind and those that mind dont matter

I agree have a chat with the vicar about your feelings and be honest. I am Christian and had my DS christened but we didn't attend any pre-christening talks etc...In my opinion, not necessary.

I would ask the Christian family/friends you mention to be godparents, taking the onus off you, should your DS show an interest in pursuing Christianity when he is older.

If you really want a small do, have a small do. But from your post, to me it sounds like it's actually morphosing into a big family/friends do, all wanting to welcome your DS into the family group officially and to celebrate the formalisation of the adoption - and I think it'd really lovely they all want to be involved. Far better than not one of them giving a jot...

Congrats on your DS - have a fab day whatever you decide!

ooh - massive cross-post with so many of you! Thank you so much, all of you - some good ideas which I hadn?t thought of, and can sit and consider.
Flisspaps & hormones - we are not in contact with birth mother, other than what they call ?letterbox contact? which will start next year, and is just a letter or card to inform her of DS?s welfare. We don?t absolutely HAVE to have the christening in the letter of the law, as once we have the adoption order, we have all rights to our son. However, we did agree to do it, and it?s in all of the paperwork which DS will one day have access to, and I couldn?t possibly NOT do it, because we agreed to respect her wishes and beliefs and she is his birth mother. I couldn?t look him in the face if we didn?t do it, so really it?s not an option to not do it, iyswim?
Thanks for the link, venusandmars, I will look into that, andSRStanislaus - lovely phrase
those that matter dont mind and those that mind dont matter thank you

SO much good advice from all of you - thank you. Got lots to think about now

Personally, I would go ahead with the christening rather than a naming ceremony, as that is what you promised to the birth mother, but I would explain to your vicar the reason why you are having a christening and that you don't feel comfortable with attending the intense classes beforehand as these do not reflect your beliefs and you feel it would be disrespectful to people who do hold these beliefs. Give the vicar the option of backing out if he/she is not comfortable going ahead in your circumstances.
If you truly just want a small celebration then stick to what you want. This is your childs christening, not anyone elses. I think you can avoid offending people by being honest with them as to why you are having a christening in the first place.

I do like the suggestion earlier that you treat it as a way of officially welcoming your child into your family and community.

Hope all goes well with whatever you decide

I am a Christian, but I still had very small christenings for my children. The first time there were 11 of us (godparents and grandparents) The only difference second time was that we had DC1's godparents as well.

We followed the Christenings with a small lunch, but threw a massive 'Welcome To The World' party the following weekend.

I think something similar would work for you. Go for small and simple, and explain to everyone that you aren't planning a large Christening, but will have a party at a later date to introduce him properly.

Congratulations on your new DS, by the way!

Would you feel comfortable asking your mums friend / new priest to be god mother? Is this an option? Your ds would certainly have the christian guidance he needs from her; should he need it.
Then you could have a smaller service as you see fit more in keeping with your own wishes.

Congrats btw on your ds.

I?m glad that you can all see where I?m coming from, and I really am tending towards a smaller service. I think I?ll just have to have an honest chat with Mum?s friend about the service, and not really wanting to go to these preparation classes. That would seem hypocritical as we are not planning to bring DS up in the christian faith - we are respecting his birth mother?s wishes and opening a door for him.
The thing is, once we have the adoption order, we then get invited to county court for a Celebration Hearing - we all dress up, do the formal paperwork, try the Judge?s wigs on etc, and properly celebrate his arrival, so we will get the chance to do a proper ?welcome to the world? thing. That was only going to be close family, but perhaps we could invite lots of people to that instead of inviting them to the christening, and go very low-key on the religious ceremony, - I could even explain that financially and with our unique-ish situation?

hormonalmum - it never even crossed my mind to invite her to be godmother instead of vicar. What a brilliant idea!

FWIW- I have found when we adopted DS people felt they somehow had a claim to him. That because he wasn't our birth child he somehow belongs to them as well, and they could hold him, give him things to eat etc without asking us, grab him from us, tell us how to parent and have a say in our plans for him because they felt a little piece of him was theirs as well.
It is hard to describe, but I wonder if now that I have written that out it makes sense to you?
If it does then I would suggest that a little bit of this is going on here.

Or it may be that people are filling in because they know that being Christian isn't for you.

You have had some good advice on here, and so I hope that you can find a solution that is right for you.

wow silver - that?s exactly what we?ve found with DS. We?ve had him for just over 6 months now (he was v tiny when we got him) and people have often picked him up without asking, and handed him toys without checking - almost as though he were public property. I?m not sure if that?s about him being adopted, or just about some people being like that with all babies? I don?t know if that?s going on here or not, but it?s worth considering. Thank you!

Why thank you! Hope it all goes well.

The celebration hearing will be fab. I have been with my friend when her adoption was stamped iykwim. We then went off to celebrate with lunch in a local restaurant. There were quite a lot of us as both sides of her family are large.

It was a really lovely day and very special to everyone there.

I can understand your wanting to keep Christening small. Dh & I are both practising Christians, but only invited immediate family and our 3 closest friends (who are Godparents) to dd's Christening. I know some people who've had massive 'do's' st hotels and imho I think it can detract a bit from the purpose of the occasion.
Obviously your situation is a bit different and it is lovely that so many people want to welcome and celebrate your new son with you. Even if you have lots of people, you don't need to go overboard with the 'reception' - some nice sandwiches and cakes and toast to your ds wouldn't be too expensive. Perhaps you could hold it in your garden and incorporate a couple of non-religious 'readings' or poems that mean something to you, and maybe plant a tree or something to make the day as much about your new family unit as honouring the wishes of your ds birth mother.

thank you womblingfree - I think we?re forgetting that this day could be about us too. Just because it?s not our choice, doesn?t mean we can?t enjoy it? Having these responses has really clarified my thinking. Bloody hell, you?re all brilliant!