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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think that a toddler shouldn't be in a car without a seat no matter how short a distance?

47 replies

DetectivePotato · 31/07/2010 11:47

A friend of mine often gives another friend a lift. The friend with the car has her DD in her carseat and the other friend who gets a lift has a DS 4 and DD who is not 3 yet. Usually it is only a few streets away, but I personally wouldn't be comfortable about this. However I met up with them the other day and it was a journey that was a good 6-8 miles away. I asked if she had given them a lift and she said "yes its only up the road"

I asked what about if she was stopped by a police car and she just sort of looked at me a bit vaguely and didn't really answer.

AIBU to think that trips like this are not a good idea? I know when we were all younger things were not as strict as they are now, I used to sit in the back of a van on a beanbag but not at 3 and 4 years old.

OP posts:
moaningminniewhingesagain · 31/07/2010 11:52

Under threes are only allowed without a carseat in taxis, full stop.

I think lots of people think it is allowed for a quick lift etc - I know DH thought the same til I rollocked him for letting his cousin drive him with our DCs ( age 1 and 2 ).

For an emergency, ie to take them to A and E - forgivable IMHO. For a trip out, no.

YANBU

LisaD1 · 31/07/2010 11:55

YANBU

I would go mental if I found out one of my DC was taken anywhere other than for a life saving trip to A&E without a car seat and actually even then I would ask why they went by car and not ambulance if it was urgent enough to warrant no car seat!

No excuse, you can pick them up cheaply enough these days.

Original poster
DetectivePotato · 31/07/2010 12:06

Just to clarify, the mother of these other 2 DCs is in the car too. She has car seats but they are in her car which her DH takes to work. She mainly walks but sometimes my other friend offers a lift and she accepts. I'm not making excuses at all btw. I don't agree with it at all. Like others have said, unless it is an emergency, then why take the risk.

OP posts:
sheeplikessleep · 31/07/2010 12:11

Totally agree.
I saw a kid leaning out of the back window the other day, whilst car was being driven on a national speed limit road.
I could see the whole of the kids t-shirt (he was about 6-8 years old) and he was leaning out, holding his arms out in the air. He must have been leaning his tummy on the bottom of the window, if that makes sense?
Totally totally idiotic and unbelievable. I cannot understand how anyone can do this.

Original poster
DetectivePotato · 31/07/2010 12:15

Bloody hell!!! What is the matter with some people!

OP posts:
Original poster
DetectivePotato · 31/07/2010 12:15

Bloody hell!!! What is the matter with some people!

OP posts:
PauloNuttella · 31/07/2010 12:23

YANBU
I used to follow a friend home from playgroup. Her house was about three miles along fast, busy road. Her 1 and 3 yo's would be jumping about in the back seat. I did tackle her about it, but she said that they hated their carseats so much, it would be cruel to force them in
Shortly after, the playgroup arranged for a road safety officer to come and talk to the parents. He arrived looking upset and close to tears. His last task before coming to us was to fill out a report following an accident, and subsequent deaths of a local man and his twin toddlers. He and his wife were divorced, he had no carseats, and the wife didn't dare rock the boat and insist that they were in seats.
The officer actually cried during his talk and demonstration, which was far more emotional and strongly worded than it was supposed to be, however, the message really got through to everybody.

As my dh always says, you never know which idiots are going to be on the road - why the he'll would you putyour dc's lives at risk by not making sure they are safe?

Sorry, that was a bit long, but it' one of my ranty subjects!

mummysgoingmad · 31/07/2010 12:39

moaningminniewhingesagain i'm glad you mentioned taxis as i was ready to go into a rant!

Blondeshavemorefun · 31/07/2010 12:42

All babies/toddlers/under 8's should be in a car seat

yes emergancys travel without, to me thats going to hospital

NOT going to see a friend

tholeon · 31/07/2010 16:11

Sorry slight tangent here...does anyone know if taxi firms often have car seats?

I need to take DS (14 months) in a taxi soon and I'm not sure why it would be safer to be car-seatless in a taxi rather than in a car...

omnishambles · 31/07/2010 16:14

No they dont tholeon - they have boosters but not car seats.

Its not safer - its just unenforceable otherwise - although you can go in a black cab in the buggy with the brakes on.

Has anyone read superfreakonomics btw?very interesting section on car seats and statistics.

whoneedssleepanyway · 31/07/2010 16:17

i have booked a taxi to the airport before and requested a carseat and they had one, think you would probably need to ask when booking it.

katiestar · 31/07/2010 18:42

If she has 3 children acrioss the back seat she doesn't legally have to have the one in the middle in a car seat.Also unforeseeen journeys are exempt.the policeman that came to our toddler group says the law is unenforceable anyway

Original poster
DetectivePotato · 31/07/2010 18:45

So basically she could just say it was an unforseen journey then.

Still not worth it IMHO.

OP posts:
AmazingBouncingFerret · 31/07/2010 18:47

The highway code say that a child over the age of three can travel in the car with just a regular seatbelt restraint if the journey is necessary and unavoidable. Any other time then it's just pure dangerous laziness.

BertieBotts · 31/07/2010 18:54

It's common sense though isn't it - if the journey is planned in advance then you arrange to have a carseat available. If the journey is impromptu then you use a carseat if it's available, if it isn't then you see if there is another way you can travel or if the journey is really necessary.

If it was really "just down the road" why not walk?

moaningminniewhingesagain · 31/07/2010 21:13

Children under three, by law, must have a carseat unless in a taxi. Not safer in a taxi, but not illegal.

Unforseen trip doesn't matter a jot - legal but silly for over threes to travel without carseat for a short unexpected trip - for under threes it is against the law unless a taxi. Link here

skyeplusbump · 31/07/2010 21:16

i had no idea that you could get in a taxi with no carseat!
surely just as dangerous?! what on earth is that about then?!

omnishambles · 31/07/2010 22:41

Becasue otherwise people without cars wouldnt be able to travel by train in a lot of places and the minicab industry would be up in arms - black cabs are different because of the buggy thing - they act almost like a bus in that case although mroe likely to cause injury etc.

skyeplusbump · 31/07/2010 22:53

i dont have a car..ive always just figured it couldnt be done,and found another way...wow i could have shortened SOOO many journeys!!!

Debs75 · 31/07/2010 23:11

When my DD was 3 we couldn't physicaly varry her carseat to the supermarket just for the taxi ride back so we got her a seat belt holder type thing which moved the shoulder blet down so it wasn't across her face. It meant she was strapped in comfortably and she didn't have the shoulder belt behind her head like my friends 10 year old daughter does as she is soo small.

Some taxis carry booster seats which help a bit but you have to remember taxi drivers don't always go back to the office to pick up/drop off seats or know who is going to get in the taxi. They just don't have the room to carry extra seats.

I absolutely hate seeing parents driving around with their kids not strapped in, especially when there is a very expensive car seat strapped into the seat.
I agree the law is pretty much unenforcable, you would need police on every road all the time so they would never get anything else done.
Alternatively they could hire some civilians to look out for non-strapped in kids who could photo the car and reg and send it to the police who could send out a fine.
It might come across as snooping on other parents but they are putting lives at risk and I need something to do whilst pounding the streets trying to get rid of my baby-fat.

StealthPolarBear · 31/07/2010 23:15

omnishambles, yes I have, I thought it was really interesting but he forgot to factor in the safety aspect of having your toddler pinned down where they can't fiddle with stuff/release the belt etc!

IMoveTheStars · 31/07/2010 23:20

I cannot stand this, drives me as bonkers as drunk drivers.

My sister used to look after a little boy before she had her daughter (so didn't have a car seat) Sometimes when friends picked her up with this boy, she'd happily do a 10 mile journey with him on her lap (he would have been about 20mo )

Yes, the fucking mouthful she got from me caused a massive family rift, but as far as I know she doesn't do it any more. The worst thing was the it was our Mum talking him most of the bloody time!

I've actually shouted at someone for this - was waiting at lights and saw someone holding their baby in their arms instead of putting him in the car seat in the back.. Don't think there was anything wrong with the seat - them telling me to 'fuck off, it's not your fucking child' told me they didn't give a damn anyway.

[and relax]

sorry

BertieBotts · 31/07/2010 23:26

Yes that's true omni - no way to get a taxi back from a train/airport with young children if carseats were mandatory. Annoying though - the toddler stage is the only one where you can't have a portable seat, the baby ones usually clip onto a pushchair and you can carry a booster seat, but DS outgrew his baby seat at 18 months and is nowhere near big enough for a booster. If I had to travel without a carseat for him I'd probably put some reins on him and my seatbelt through the back of them, but it's not ideal, those kinds of straps just aren't meant for that purpose.

MumNWLondon · 01/08/2010 01:21

if 4 year old has adult seat belts on then thats pretty safe. Actually if 4 YO was in middle between 2 car seats he doesn't legally need one. Maybe a bit different for 2 YO. Totally different if unrestrained.

See "freakonomics" - basically they tested 3 YO in car with adult seat belt compared to toddler seat and found the difference in safety was very very minimal. Much less that anyone on here making out. Not a good idea for long journey at speed but hardly irresponsible for occasional shorter slower more local journey.