To think that the ELC should realise that some nurses are male. And some doctors are female. And some men dance ballet. And some women engage in piracy on the high seas. Etc.

[missedith01]

"For the little princess in the family we have great feminine outfits like Butterfly Fairy, Sleeping Beauty, Ballerina and Nurse?s uniform. Why not add a medical case for that extra touch of authenticity.

The boys are catered for too, with great Doctor, Policeman & Fireman uniforms, not to mention fantastic Pirate and Knight costumes. All these can be combined with a range of accessories so your child will really look the part."

www.elc.co.uk/children%27s-dressing-up-outfits/5540,default,sc.html

I thought you were joking about the pink globe! WTF???!

"Mummy I want to be a marine ecologist so I can grow a tail and swim in pink oceans ..."

Those who claim the shops are only following customer demand have missed the most crucial point about marketing - demand is created. Girls didn't "need" everything in pink before the corporations started telling them they needed pink because they're girls (well done, Mattel). Women didn't "need" bald legs before some bright spark decided to tell them they needed to buy depilatories. And so on.

YANBU. Going into ELC is a heartsinking experience.

YADNBU

Its 2010 not 1950!

I totally agree with you, andbabymadefour. My mum was a 70's feminist and I wasn't allowed dolls of any kind, etc etc.

But in answer to your very good q about applying stereotypes to black people vs gender, I think again it's mass public perception.

Most people would just think 'aww how sweet' about a wee girl in a pink doctor's outfit. While most people do now accept that racism exists and that it is wrong, I honestly believe that most people still think to some degree that sexism a) doesn't exist and b) isn't wrong - ie, 'men and women are different, stop trying to make them the same' etc.

Loads of parents delight in making their kids resemble mini adults, in the starkest sexually identified terms.

Try complaining about anything to ELC and you'll find their customer service is dreadful. I spoke to them on the phone, wasn't satisfied and asked to speak to a manager - no chance! Then emailled them and still didn't get a reply. Have now stopped shopping there - horribly expensive anyway.

Morris - yes, it really gets me on my soap box.

I have a 16 month old daughter and I get so fed up when people say things to me like "ooh, is she a bit of a tomboy" when they see her playing with a toy car. No, FFS, she is a girl playing with a car. That's all.

Prejudice based on gender is acceptable, it starts early and the drip, drip, drip has a chilling affect on girl's hopes and aspirations. All those ruddy fairy costumes are the start of girls being judged by their appearance and culminate in my 16 year old niece so valuing herself by appearance that she won't even see family without a full face of makeup, including smokey eyeliner.

In some areas (GPs spring to mind) women have overriden sterotypes to outnumber men, but in many more they haven't. I'm no Xenia, I don't believe women have a moral obligation to career aspirations, but I do believe that we, as adults, have a duty to protect our daughters from this crap.

Oops, my mistake. But it still stands - most adults think girls in nurses or beauticians outfits are cute, not stereotyped.

I mean most as in most of them out there as opposed to on here.

I've stopped going to ELC.

My personal final straw was when they started doing their plastic cooker (our version is xmas 2007) in pink as well as the blue/green. If dd had been a couple of years younger no doubt the in-laws would've bought the pink one. I'm glad they didn't have the choice.

I went into ELC for the first time as a parent the other day and was pretty shocked by the pink and blue division- I remember it totally differently from my own childhood and from when my siblings were wee. Interesting to hear from the person who used to word there.

I love all the 'right on' European wooden non-gendered stuff but would have to sell a kidney to afford any of it. Cheap non gendered quality toys and imaginative game/role playing stuff... does it exist? Or do you have to be a whizz with a sewing machine and a jigsaw?!

.

YANBU

YANBU

I despise the stereotyping. I have never been a girly-girl and DD thankfully is the same. Probably my influence I think, but then again since starting school she hasnt come home wanting HSM or Barbie.

She has a selection of girls clothes (generally not pink unless bought for her by a relative) and boys clothes.

The only costume I have bought for her is a Supergirl dress with matching headband with no pink in sight

I skip the girls toy sections in catalogues and in shops. Doesn't interest me or DD. The boys toys are way more fun

Thats terrible! I am pretty liassez faire about this gender stuff, but thats BLATANT

the whole women=nurse and men=doctor
shocking and complete bullshit too

fucking hell!

Sorry about the random full stop there!

Im an employee of ELC wanted to change my nick from my usual posting one because I didnt want to have my details and regular posting name on here!

Unfortunately it is demand. People buy the pink stuff by the bucketload and if an item isnt available in pink they will want to know why.

It's a pain in my arse though. 2 colourways means twice the amount of stock, which takes up more room in my stockrooms and on the shopfloor.
If either a pink or blue product is selling better than the other then head office will send the instructions to reduce the one that isnt selling aswell which causes grief for us because (most) customers dont/wont understand the reasonings for doing this.

It's my understanding the pink girls outfit that is being discussed is a vets outfit not a beautician.
If I recall correctly (Ive only flicked through it once, so I might be wrong) the new Autumn/Winter catalogue has done away with the boy/girl divide to an extent, but you have to understand that the products cant be mixed completely due to continuity and flow. If a customer is looking for a dress up outfit for a boy then to have them on different pages and different areas of the shop would make it very annoying!
I dont have a very big ELC store so all my dressing up is altogether on the one stand, which makes things a bit easier!

haven't got time to do a proper post, but just wanted to say I too have stopped shopping at elc, thought it was just me, catalogue makes me feel ill on a good day, angry on a bad one.

DD had her 2nd birthday this week. We took her out and the children were having their faces painted.
Her two friends had their faces done as pink tigers.
DD sat down, asked to be a tiger. Not a pink tiger, an orange tiger. Tigers are not pink, she said. Quite right.

She'll fit right in on mumsnet in 30 years time.

I remember ELC being very undivided as a child & a lot less 'plastic'! Making such a blatent divide between the boys toys & girls toys certainly encourages gender stereotyping.

That being said, when I have gone in with my DD (nearly 2) she is actually drawn more towards the boys stuff. She loves building blocks & dinosaurs & I have no intention of discouraging this at all! Like Jebus I am not a 'girly girl' & very very rarely buy my DD anything pink.

I am actually in the process of writing a childrens book about a little girl who is a tomboy & gets picked on by her older sister who tells her to be more girly. She discovers it's much better to be who she is than trying to fit into gender sterotypes.

Let Girls be who they want to be!!

Altinkum, as a starting point I would settle for ELC not actually saying in so many words "The boys are catered for [...] with great Doctor uniforms".

I don't like that they push massively stereotyped toys in pink or blue but, yes, there's nothing actually saying that the pink is for girls and the blue for boys.

I don't like that the packaging for nurses' uniforms shows little girls while the packaging for doctors' uniforms shows little boys but, admittedly, there's nothing on the packaging saying that nurses are for girls and doctors are for boys.

But, really, when one of the UK's leading toy manufacturers and retailers sends out publicity material saying very specifically that nurse outfits are for girls and doctor outfits are for boys (in 2010!), I am entitled to rise up and proclaim that they are Just Taking The Piss Now.

Loving this thread, I can't believe my Mum went through all the 'want to bring up a child with non-gendered toys' thing nearly 40 years ago and here I am about to do it again...sooooo nothing changes then?

I was horrified at the pink globe - I had to check it was really true!

Although, actually, there are apparently no costumes for girls. There are costumes for "little princesses" and costumes for boys.

As my DD is not a little princess but a girl, I assume that ELC won't mind my taking her custom somewhere else.

Agree with rockbird

ELC is a business and is consumer driven; if people didn't buy it, they wouln't sell it. I personally detest all the pink tat but somehow managed to find my way round the ELC to buy the blue and red kitchen etc

Thanks for postng, ZDB. Your reply isn't very encouraging but I didn't want you to go unanswered!

"If a customer is looking for a dress up outfit for a boy then to have them on different pages and different areas of the shop would make it very annoying!"

Why? This implies the boy (or his parent) cannot choose a dress-up outfit unless he is first stereotyped by gender. Surely he'd go into the store saying "I want a cowboy outfit or a beautician outfit" - not "I want an outfit to tell me whether I'm a boy or a girl"!

Yes, it is evidence of a strong gender divide in the Company's thinking.

For example, why not simply group toys by area - outdoors, dressing up, etc.

You don't divide electronic goods, or bedding, or crockery by gender in a department store. These isn't actually any reason why toys need to be divided in that way either. Other categorisations would enable parents to find what they want just as quickly.

Sadly people do fall for this crap. I was given a whole load of red, green and blue toys when DD was bornm because I wasn't fussy but the person giving them was expecting a girl and wanted her to have everything a)new and b) pink.

I personally dislike it and dislike elc anyway but there are many people who do get gendered toys and who actively want their DDs to be princesses or ballerinas rather than drs.