To think that hating/ not liking children is an unacceptable predjudice.

[GothAnneGeddes]

Children are human beings and we were all children once, yet people think it is acceptable to dislike them, just for being children.

Often people will say that they don't like bratty, ill behaved children, but then adults behave far worse and yet it is generally unacceptable to say "I hate men/women".

People used widely say I hate Jews/gays/black people, but now people generally (not all, sadly) know that it's wrong to think that way, so why don't people realise that about children?

Before anyone thinks I'm being over sensitive, there is far too much ill treatment of children (there's been some heinous threads on here, where I've wanted to weep for the children involved) and I think we really need to change our attitudes.

No Godwin's law please.

Allow me to elaborate on my viewpoint. We live in a society which in lots of ways, is terrible to be a child in.

Our care system is awful, child protection underfunded, young offenders institutions worse then adult prisons, play areas getting sold off left and right.

And I'm sorry but I do hear 'I don't like children', frequently, I even read it here, and I really feel there is a connection between the widespread disdain people feel for children (unless they are your magical offspring) and such poor treatment.

IMO, to be prejudiced is to view someone as a lesser being due to a part of their identity and prejudice manifests itself in different ways.

I don't feel we have moved so far from Victorian attitudes towards children and childcare and I find that very sad.

Now, I'm aware this is in AIBU, so I've got my big girl pants on and you can disagree with me all you want, far more interesting then just posting biscuits.

As for my username, it was the stupidest one I could think of at the time.

"Our care system is awful, child protection underfunded, young offenders institutions worse then adult prisons, play areas getting sold off left and right.... I really feel there is a connection between the widespread disdain people feel for children ... and such poor treatment."

Really? Are you sure?

I still don't like other people's children and I'm buggered if I'm taking the blame for the policies of past and present government!

But not liking something isn't the same as viewing it as a "lesser being".

For example, I'm not keen on seafood. However, I don't think that it's "worse" than other foods, I just don't like it that much.

"We live in a society which ... is terrible to be a child in."

No, we don't.

I've lived in societies which are terrible to be a child in, and lemme tell you, no free healthcare, scant free education, slum dwelling, child prostitution and child labour are a lot worse than (for eg.) people not enjoying the company of toddlers in gastropubs, or whatever it is that suggests a dislike of children.

You have to be wildly ignorant to believe that children's lives are not immeasurably better today in the Western world than in almost any other time or place.

Sorry, I don't just have the time to decide whether or not to like/dislike other people's children. I can't make people change their minds about my children, but I can make sure that I raise my children and teach them to be responsible and open to different cultures and beliefs.

I also think your argument about a positive correlation between your feelings for children and the incidence of abuse and maltreatment is a feeble one...

I dont like spoilt, bratty misbehaved children, and I dont like spoilt bratty adults. YABU, cant like everything in the world, its ok for people to like something and dislike other things.

I don't understand how someone can not like children as they were one once?

Same goes for the elderly, I've heard alot of negative comments about them and again that will be us one day.

How can yuou dislike someone you were or will be?

I do have sympathy for people who have a phobia of children. DH's former boss came around to our house once, and she was genuinely very scared of DS. I did take him out of the room and I felt very sorry for her (the boss). It is an awful feeling to be really scared of something.

In terms of not liking children, I suppose it depends what people mean by that. If people mean they don't want to spend a huge amount of time in conversation with other people's children, that's fine. But if people mean they actually find it annoying to be in places where children are (bar a few adult only evening events and some work places where it would be inappropriate) simply because they are children, rather than because they are badly behaved children, then I do think that is ludicrous.

Bailey I am a woman and yet don't like some other women thought that is what I am...

Your argument is, I think, possibly the silliest thing I ever heard

I agree with Bonsoir.

And I still don't like babies/small children in posh restaurants where you've paid $300 for a meal to enjoy in peace!

(Now I will go away as the last time I started that thread I got flayed alive....)

"Often people will say that they don't like bratty, ill behaved children, but then adults behave far worse and yet it is generally unacceptable to say "I hate men/women". "

This makes no sense.

People saying that they don't like a particular type of behaviour in children (bratty, ill-behaved), is not the same as making a general statement such as "I hate men/women".

Saying "I hate bratty, ill-behaved men/women" would be a perfectly acceptable thing to say IMHO.

I think adults can be vile too! I do like children but I also like adult company and adult fun.

However, when an adult behaves badly they have far less excuse for doing so than a child.

Liking children dosn't necessarily mean that you want to hang out with them btw.

I have met some children I positively hate, You do not have to like someone just because they are a child, or any of the other things you mention

Namechangingchick - That's my point people have said to me "I don't like children", you press them on it, and it's the bad behaviour they don't like, yet they will still claim they don't like children full stop.

And yes it is better to be a child now, but that's not saying much. And Headbanger, saying our care system is poor, isn't the same as children's access to gastropubs. That other countries have it worse is undeniable, but it doesn't mean that things are ok here. They're not.

As for the correlation argument, if I were to say that the objectification of women was linked to rates of violence against women, people may see the link. So is it not possible that society which views children as nuisances is maybe one which also ill treats them?

For example, do you not see a link to the 'ASBO class' demonisation of some teenagers and the poor funding and conditions in Young Offenders Institutions?

Try rephrasing it to does anyone really like bratty children etc op and the responses will be the same except I expect many will agree with this sweeping statement.

I personally do not like children who behave as spoilt brats and have told my own ds before to stop behaving like one. There are children I could say I dislike - for example the ones who kept running through our communal garden last year throwing things at our window and swearing.

Of course there are people who do not like children/ or the idea of having them but surely thats their choice - and why is it ok for someone to say I want x amount of dcs as I love children and not for someone to say I do not like them and don't wan tot have them?

"And yes it is better to be a child now, but that's not saying much"

Such nonsense.

Get in a time machine and go back, even 50 years and see how much harder it was back then.

Children now have rights enshrined in law, which was never the case before.

The incidents of terrible abuse are not higher than they were, they're just more widely reported, and they are no less terrible.

Your attempts at correlation are actually laughable...HA HA HA. Society does objectify women; children are, in our society, held in the highest regard by most people. Even people who say they "don't like children" wouldn't say "Oh yeah, well that 7 year old deserved to be raped, she's just a KID innit?" (I realise that there are tiny minorities of people who believe this kind of shit, but they are a teeeeeeny minority - much more men believe that women are asking for rape)

Your final argument about the "ASBO class" of teenagers is actually more about class than it is about children.

Yes, it is completely unreasonable. Get over yourself

i don't agree with seperating behaviour from the child. we are our behaviour. i thik its perfecly reasonable to state that you don't like children.

i like some children. my sweeping statement would take this form:

i don't like babies. i don't like being around them on the whole. I recognise that this is no fault of babies. it is compleely a psychological one for me. however it is what it is. i don't like them.

So just because things aren't as terrible as they were, everything is hunky dory? I'm not sure that is such a sterling argument either.

With one child a week being murdered by a parent/carer, that's not too disimilar to the numbers of women murdered by partners/ ex partners.

If we hold children in such high regard, then why are so many children's services underfunded? Why is our compliance to UNCRC deemed to be so poor?

As for the ASBO class, do you not think class and age intersect?

You are talking shit.

You keep shifting the goalpost of your arguments and I want to take my jumper, and the ball, home now please.

Look, People who do not have children; people who have grown up children, people who have children might say they "dislike children" This doesn't equal blatant disregard and subsequent abuse of them.

You, WE as a society are never going to eradicate child abuse and the murder of children/women or MEN come to that - interesting that men are so completely outside of any of your arguments - it is a horrible, awful thing. It will always happen I'm afraid.

As far as funding is concerned? uh, write to your MP sweetheart. MN can't help there.

ASBO class? No, I think the "underclass" have been created by the hideous mis-use of power by successive governments, the complete decimation of our manufacturing industries and poor parenting. Age is irrelevant.

Agree totally with shirley, headbanger and oblomov.

Your arguments say it better than my arguments, and am too tired to think anyway...

Will return to having my own, properly formulated opinions when everyone is sleeping better