to hate the, ''the baby could be adopted'' argument.

[vosene]

Having read the quite lengthy thread on whether the abortion limit should be lowered (I think it's fine at 24 weeks incidentally) I just wanted to vent a little about one particular point. Whenever I've debated the issue of abortion with either the completely pro-life or simply people who want to limit the abortion criteria, the same issue continually comes up: why can't they just put the baby up for adoption instead?

Now, I've had personal experience with this because an anti-abortion family member put their child up for adoption and seemed almost idealistic about the kind of life that child would then lead. However, my friend who has adopted 2 children herself and is a social worker would tell you otherwise.

So many people seem to be under the illusion that EVERYBODY in the UK wants to adopt a gorgeous little newborn and that there are seemingly people queuing around the block to become adoptive parents. Do we honestly believe that this is true? Do they not understand how long is takes for people to be vetted and approved? Agencies are absolutely crying out for people to adopt children, but unfortunately most of those children aren't little 'untainted' babies, they're young kids with serious problems. People only want the babies because once kids get past a 'certain age', they're practically discarded on the adoptive rubbish heap. Is that fair?

How many of you actually know people with adopted children? I only know one- my friend, and I know rather a lot of people with children.

It makes my blood boil that in a similar way to people that fecklessly use abortion as a back up for their inability to ever use contraception (although I do think this is uncommon), other people will justify removing a woman's right to abortion by saying that the baby can be adopted.

My friend has told me how most young babies are actually passed from foster parent to foster parent in the first few months/ year of their life before they'll even get a chance to be adopted. For the unlucky, they just move on into care.

So, whilst I'm aware of just how emotive this issue is, AIBU to think:

1)Putting your child up for adoption is probably just as difficult as having an abortion and is not a somehow easier or 'better' option.

2)To assume that your child will be lucky and will be adopted by a kind, loving family is misguided and unfair on the child.

3. That most people using the 'adoption' argument against abortion are simply unwilling to accept that not many families in this country (or in many countries for that matter) actually want to adopt because they can have their own children instead.

If the abortion limit was lowered and this adoption solution was proposed instead, we would see the number of kids being fostered or in care go through the roof, and I doubt very much that the numbers of 'prospective parents' would actually increase as well.

shrieking, the same could be said of adoption tho.

What about the potential psychological repercussions of abortion? What about the possibility that the woman in question may feel regret, depression, guilt etc

For me, there is no regret, no guilt. The only depression I had was the black hole I was in while pregnant. You can't undo adoption either.

How crass to suggest that continuing with a pregnancy that could have left me with 1/ physical problems post birth & 2/ long term mental issues would have been better, but not better for me....oh no....better for the foetus! Because it is only ever the foetus that matters, isn't it?

Nope, don't think I was reading it wrong.

swanandduck, apparently you would not have time to focus on their needs.

Well really, I've heard it all. Do some of these social workers live in the real world???

The psychological implications of abortion? I would think that for the vast majority of people having a safe, early termination is much less psychologically damaging than giving birth to a baby and giving it away.

Most children in the care system are not there because their parents gave them up for adoption. They are there because they were forcibly removed from their parent's care because that parent/those parents could not care for their child properly. Thank God there are some people who are willing to adopt older, physically and emotionally damaged children. And equally, thank God that some of these very damaged, screwed up potential parents do consider abortion.

Can you back that up with facts or research ReasonableDoubt?

No, I don't. My view is based purely on anecdotal evidence, from the people I know. The only woman I know of who has emotionally scarred by abortion is my aunt, who had a backstreet abortion in Ireland in the 50s.

I was just thinking, though, it would be great to have some genuinely impartial research about the psychological effect of abortion, rather than horrible pro-life propaganda, where they wheel out some poor woman to sob about how it ruined her life.

sorry, no I can't

My Mother is adopted. She says it ruined her life. She is so bitter about it that she made my childhood a total misery.

I personally don't believe in abortion but TBH my Mothers horrendous bitterness and my resulting childhood have actually made me consider the thought that I would almost rather have never been born and not have had her emotional manipulation... An abortion is something that only the Mother really has to deal with, adoption can cause total misery to generations of people

swanandduck Well however you decide to interpret it, I am saying that the foetus does not have more of a right to life than myself or my family.

I am not talking about every foetus (which is what I think you believe I am saying) I am talking about my individual case.

The foetus inside was not as important as my existing dc. And continuing with a damaging (physically & emotionally) pregnancy would have impacted negatively on their life.

And you say that anti-choices care about what women go through during a unwanted pregnancy! Your posts are not evidence of that at all!

I care, but I still think abortion is killing an unborn child. It's as simple as that really. If that's what you believe then you just cannot accept abortion in any circumstance. Hence my analogy with elderly people and carers.

Hi everybody , I am 23 weeks pregnant and considering adopting, regardless of my choice in the end, let me please express the horror of the thought of terminating right now, my baby is kicking and moving inside of me, she is nearly 30cm long, and I can feel her change in movements depending on how I am feeling, she reacts to certain music that I play, when I cry she kicks me repeatedly and i when I am calm she is calm, never could I, feeling what i feel inside terminate as I feel the baby would have a lot of distress and I can feel this in my soul that she would know- before falling pregnant, I didn’t understand why people wouldn’t up to 24 weeks- I am sorry for those who chose to do that, it must have been terribly difficult, but I just could not.

I know lots of adoptive parents will slate me for saying this

But adoption can leave trauma.

As animals we feel a connection to our biological parents and we don't cope well with the feeling of being rejected/unwanted by those parents. Even if we barely met them and have no meaningful bond with them, we feel they should love us purely for sharing their genes.

Some children will cope fine with growing up adopted. Lots will struggle, will have difficult lives as a result.

Not sure if you’re looking for advice on anything or not, but you’ll be better off starting off your own thread as this one was 14 years ago!

Tempest

In reality there are extremely few terminations so late in the uk and those that do occur are typically for medical reasons. My family member was in this category. Her baby was missing key organs & had a malformed brain and was unlikely to survive pregnancy.

More than 90% of abortions happen before 12 weeks, most of those are before 10 weeks.

Oh. Zombie thread.