to want to shout at Primark shoppers?

[baiyu]

I mean really, just how many shoppers without a conscience are there? There really is no justification for shopping somewhere that treats its garment workers so badly and has continued to do despite years of campaigning.

Primark are thriving in the economic downturn making workers lives worse and worse as they struggle to keep up with orders. Being poor is no excuse, I can?t afford to buy new clothes but I?d rather my few quid went to Oxfam than ABF and their cruel trading practices. So tell me, why do people shop there? The quality is terrible too, how is it a bargain if an item of clothing lasts ten minutes?

I?m not just reading the Daily Mail by the way, researching things like this is my job, the working conditions have NOT improved and it?s just making me angry! AIBU to think more people should care?

smittenkitten and babybarrister- thank you!

If Primark shoppers all demanded that ABF take more action to prevent exploitation- they would, that makes business sense. If they paid a decent wage they could still keep prices low but why bother when people will still buy from there regardless of human rights abuses?

Cutting and running from factories with problems isn't the answer - sustained investment, support and decent wages might be.

A move away from teenagers demanding that their pocket money should buy 6 outfits would help too. I'm not damning mums for buying kids clothes there if they really feel they have no option, but it wouldn't hurt to be asking questions and demanding better working conditions.

The same goes for electronics and just about everything, it's an ethical minefield I know but shutting your eyes to the world's problems just isn't helping

I only buy a few good quality items I intend to use for a long time for me and kids, so the disposable aspect doesn't apply to me.

DS has jeans that have lasted a year and he will probably grow out of them, they cost £4 with a belt, similar pair in Next for £11!

I also have some fab long sleeved t-shirts that have lasted 5 years and still going strong. I am sure I have a few organic cotton ones from Primark too. And you can't go wrong with the socks and pants.

I am smug about having an A rated boiler, not having a car and not having foreign holidays, but you don't see me starting a thread about wanting to abuse people in Thomas Cook or an Audi garage!

Are you really suggesting baiyu that I cease the campaigning i already do for carer's rights and disability provision in order to focus on campaiugning for other issues?

Are youa ctually serious?

you wishme to abandon my own kid's veryr eal neeeds and prioritise someone else?

Wow.

What exactly do you feel teh role of a mohter is I wonder? Toc are for otehr people's children before my own?

Do you ahve any knowledge of the disability system and how much of a battle it is, or are you only intersted in the rights of one specific group of kids?

"The same goes for electronics and just about everything" Then why did your opening post refer specifically to Primark?

'A move away from teenagers demanding that their pocket money should buy 6 outfits would help too. I'm not damning mums for buying kids clothes there if they really feel they have no option, but it wouldn't hurt to be asking questions and demanding better working conditions.'

So you know everyone who shops in Primark is able to give teenagers pocket money enough to buy clothes?

Maybe some teens in there worked for the money - you know, like with jobs.

What a load of bollocks assumptions about poverty in the UK.

No, it's not like it is in India because, well, we don't live in India.

But it's bollocks to slag people off here and pillory their poverty by saying they're not poor.

tesco,primark have great baby stuff,children clothes at really good price.

I'm having to give my only "useable" 2nd hand school uniform to the next door neighbour - my DS3 could fit it now...........except he doesn't start until next September.

The rest is totally trashed (and no none of it was from Primark/Matalan/etc - it was from the school order company for the logoed stuff and a local independent children's clothes shop for the trousers).

Sancty - I've never seen a second hand polo shirt in a charity shop either.

UNICEF accept that children aged 12-14 working 14 hours a week or less in an economic setting is NOT child labour. (28 domestic labour) and also depends on the type of work.

However, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't campaign for them to have better wages and to stop children having to work longer than that.

If I had it my way all my clothes would be Chanel couture (not that ready to wear runway tat), no sweatshops there.

But as I don't have £50k for a suit then Primark it usually is. Although often Dotty P's and H&M too.

I'm sure it is because Primark (and Poundland mentioned too) are doing very well in the current economic climate and many middle class establishments are going down the pan!

I pass on uniforms from DD1 to DD2 - might make it to DS if we're lucky!

I can't afford to shop at Primark. I don't have enough money to buy tat clothes that fall apart after 1 season.

Can't afford to shop at Oxfam either, but that's because their pricers are out of their tree divorced from prices in the real world.

baiyu is an anagram of yabu! (if you turn the i upside down).

It's not just money that is the only scarce resource when you are poor.

The time and energy it takes to go to a boot sale, or to research what shops are ethically ok for example, is scarce because you can't afford things that give you spare time, eg a cleaner/nanny/ready made meals/a dishwasher/a dryer/a car etc. And the energy is lacking after you have done all your own housework, cleaning, childcare, cooking, washing up, walking everywhere.

As for the where did you shop before Primark if you can't afford anywhere else question, lots of people just had to do with obvious hand me downs etc which marked them out as being poor (which can lead to bullying at school and discrimination in adulthood). So I think it is good that now more people can afford to avoid that.

Babybarrister: when you are a grown up barrister, you will be in a very influential position to change society for the better, hope you can gain a bit more understanding of the barriers to ethical living that poor people in Britain face so you have got more chance of success.

You know I get bored of very earnest, privileged people telling me how to live my life. Perhaps I should start campaigning about that?

The op fails to realise that Primark is not the only offender, and is unfairly singling it out. Where do you think Next, BHS, M&S, Gap, Topshop get their clothes from, the same source as Primark me thinks, just they charge more for the same thing. They are no more ethical than Primarni

'UNICEF accept that children aged 12-14 working 14 hours a week or less in an economic setting is NOT child labour. (28 domestic labour) and also depends on the type of work.

However, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't campaign for them to have better wages and to stop children having to work longer than that. '
QUite, and abvsolutelyw e do- I was really rpud of my boys when they made £100 for charity sellibg cakes on the yard post- Haiti when teh Head said no to whole school fundraising

I am teaching tehm to do their bit; I mean if I wasn;t interested I wouldn't have chosen ethics as a courese would I?

But if tehya re selling cales on the yard they will need a coat to wear to do it. And whilst UNICEF etc are establishing better trade metj0ods, the poor kid working for tehm need money for food as well.

at specific times eg school term.parents need cheap items eg shirts,trousers etc.charity shops not necessarily packed with quality items,right size or competitive price

only when one has adequate disposable income and basic needs met can they then decide how to prioritise their cash

Deptford wife I think it is great that some Primark stuff is seen as cool. Those ballet pumps they do for a fiver will only last a few months but when I was at school if someone wore £5 shoes they would have been ripped apart!

We pass uniform along whreew we can, but from next eyar all four will hopefully be at different schools (2 different SNU's, local Juniors and an Infants)

Which rather limits my options

FFS I'm getting p*ssed off now with the assumption that some of you have that just because we shop there we don't do any sort of campaigning on the matter or that we don't care.

Tell you what - those who think I have a choice.

DS1 is going to need an entire new autmun/winter wardrobe after the summer holidays - tops, trousers, jumpers.

He barely fits them now - (DS2 is of course extremely happy about this as he is now tall enough to be able to have DS1's clothes as soon as DS1 grows out of them instead of having to wait 2-3yrs.....) -actually neither of his 2 jumpers do

I will have (at best) £50-60 to spend.

Please direct me to where I will find some ethical clothes to buy for him to replace his ENTIRE wardrobe (ok at the moment that's 5 pairs of trousers, and 4 tops and 2 jumpers). Casual and smart please, for that price.

oh - and he'll be 10 - so the handful of ethical clothes shops on line that have a limited boys clothing selection are no good as they most of them only seem to go up to about 6/7yrs old.

Charity shops round here cost more than Matalan - and I've learned from bitter experience that buying an entire wardrobe of 2nd hand clothes..........to be passed down through 3 boys just doesn't work - so need new if it's going to make it past DS2......

CaptainKirksNipples, yes I agree, that is what I meant to mean (sorry not very articulate). It is good that Primark have levelled out access to clothing that won't get you bullied etc. Hope that makes sense!

I do think that is the real reason that some people seem so offended by the very existence of Primark - it makes it oh so difficult to work out who the poor people are.

the smug fair trade chatteratti assumptions are sweeping. that anyone not buying a made in a commune hand knitted by a yak herder is an avaricious spender and immoral is really gross generalisation

people do what they have to do

expat - I am very that you managed to pass down uniform - only DS1's reception uniform was in any sort of state to be worn again...........and it's been sat in the airing cupboard for the last 4yrs in the hopes that (as DS2 was too big for it when he started) DS3 could wear it.......

Well he could - if I started him at reception in September this year

I knew that

I remember having to choose between a new jacket and new shoes for school when my dad lost his job, kids shouldn't have to make that choice! If people stop shopping then there will be more kids unable to eat and getting chucked out into the streets as families cannot afford to keep them.

(I chose new shoes, mine were too small, and walked about pretending I wasn't freezing until we got new jackets for Christmas!)

it's funny - I'm yet to discover any of these clothes that fall apart after one season.......