To this that the abortion age should be lowered

[Hai1988]

Hi all i just wanted to know what peoples thoughts were on this?

At the moment the cut off time to have an abortion is 24 weeks, but on here there has just been a story about twins born at 23 weeks!!

I think the cut off time should go right down to 12 weeks.

What do you lot think??

Hai: 'When i said "no reason" i mean if young girls or anyone really gets pregnant and wants to "get rid" cus they cant be arsed to raise a child'

Can't be arsed - interesting viewpoint. I don't think anyone takes the decision to abort lightly do they? Even feckless teenagers?

As a slight aside, I do find it interesting that the Daily Mail types who bang on about lowering the abortion limit and the miracle babies who survive at 23 weeks etc are the exact same people who like to spend the rest of their spare time bashing single mothers who have hoards of kids and 'scrounge off the welfare state'. Can't have it both ways methinks.

I'm guessing, by your username, that you're 22? When I was your age I thought the same. How could anybody have an abortion? How could they 'kill' a baby?

As I've got older I've realised things aren't as black and white as that. I've had friends abort babies because of their mental health, I've had a friend abort a baby because she got pregnant when she was raped and last year I aborted my baby at 22 weeks because it was incompatible with life.

I hope your life is always as simple as it is in your head

i tend to agree

esp with regards to "unwanted" babies

for medical issue/rape/incest I think maybe allow longer

july butterfly in 21. I am very sorry about all the comments i have said, i am just having a bad day and should of brought this subject up on here. I wont bother u in future

im shouldnt

Hai - I truly hope that whether or not to have a late abortion is a decision you never have to face.

"I would also second what hildathebuilder says about babies born at 23 weeks and quality of life for those babies. The media headlines about babies surviving at that stage are very very misleading - it doesn't mean that they go on to have normal lives"

As the mother of twins born at 23 weeks myself, (sadly, neither of whom survived, one died at 15 minutes old, one 9 days old) I find that view so offensive. In fact, it was one I had to hear from the neonatologist when I was in labour and he was trying to convince me to just let my babies die.

I have yet to meet a mother of a baby born at 23 weeks, who survived, who says they would prefer or think it would be better if their babies were dead. Yes, a high proportion of babies born at 23 weeks have a 'disability', but these statistics include things such as wearing glasses as a disability and also class a child that leaves the hospital requiring oxygen as having chronic lung disease, a 'disability', although most of these children will be off oxygen by their first birthday and never need it again. Not much of a disability, is it?

I also have a child with Downs Syndrome and I know that just because we don't view something as 'normal' it doesn't mean it is bad or that the person with the 'disability' doesn't have quality of life.

As for the OP. I am not comfortable with the abortion limit being 24 weeks. One of the recent reasons given for this was the fact that babies under 24 weeks can feel no pain. I certainly watched my daughter feel pain, (momentarily, I should add, having he rheel pricked, but she didn't like it) and babies of this gestation obviously feel stress as they show obvious signs of it when handled/touched and so many have to be sedated for their own safety. I have to admit that I don't often agree with the reasons women do terminate so late either. However, I am not sure the alternatives are any better. I think overall I would prefer to see the limit lowered to 23 weeks though, if the medical profession got their backsides into gear re scan dates etc (my own 20 week scan wasn't until 22 weeks) I don't really see the need for terminations to happen any later than this.

hai is entitled to have an opinion!!!!

I think we have got a culture where late abortions are accepted. I am NOT pro life. but I do find late abortions incredibly upsetting as is SOME cases they are avoidable.
I personally think that is wrong, esp in the case of "unwanted babies". I think there are also circumstances where late abortion is avoidable, and I accept that

people need to take more responsibility I think.

12 weeks means at least 2 missed periods. cant people be more responsible and (a) use contraception and (b) take a pregnancy test earlier?

I think that the "rights" conversation is clouding the fact that people dont take enough responsibility as they know they can get an abortion fairly easily

I think that we could change our culture, and expect I will get flamed for suggesting this

Hai - it's ok to bring up these issues here if you're prepared to listen to other people and learn from what they say. Hopefully, you're a bit clearer now about why people sometimes feel an abortion is something they have to do.

Thank you porcamisria glad some1 could say what i was trying to say in better words for me , but still dont think i will be posting on here any more as cant be bothered with the constant shit that people dish out !!

Yeh AMIS i have listened but unfortuntley i have also listened to the shit and stuipid comments ppl have made about me!

A lot of the posts on this thread are very informative. It is just such a sensitive issue that people (like me) can take it all a bit personally.

AMumInScotland well put.

You know what? I think I might have said some of the same things at 21 (though not stuck them on the internet for a pasting -- probably just discussed them with equally underinformed, inexperienced college friends). But now, at 40-ish (ahem), with three children, one of whom has a lifelong disability... well, the question has a different meaning.

Parenthood can be very, very hard. Fantastically rewarding, yes, but hard. And I don't honestly see us, as a family, coping with any extra members.

I never thought I would feel this way (and it would take a conceptive miracle, probably, to put us in that position!), but if that little blue line appeared this month, I'd be seriously considering my options. Under a bus being one of them, if the better alternative was removed.

Hai1988

it's not shit, it's opinions. You must have realised this is a complicated subject, which people get very emotive about? There is a debate to be had but they way you put things is very simplistic and judgemental.

POrca -- cross-posted. I've never had regular periods. Nor has the friend who wondered idly if she might be pregnant, and was somewhat surprised to be told she was a good 5 months gone. It can happen!

porcamiseria - but not everyone has regular cycles. I know a woman who only knew she was pregnant when her waters burst.

She came into the hospital in size 10 jeans

She had continued to have her periods throughout the pregnancy and didn't have a clue that she was pregnant.

Given that abnormaility scans arent carried out until 20 weeks (and often a couple of weeks later) and then women need time to make a considered decision, I think 24 weeks is about right as the cut off.

Lowering the limit to closer to 20 weeks could actually result in a higher abortion frequency as many women who discover an abnormality may panic and decide to abort to hit the deadline, whereas given a few more weeks, may decide that they could cope with it.

I think the survival of babies born at 23 weeks is a moot point since these babies are not surviving unassisted- lets be very clear about that. They require extensive life support for many weeks. The difference between now and five years ago is that medicine has got better- not that foetus's have somehow changed and got better at surviving. As such, the fact that a few babies have survived at 23 weeks has no moral bearing on whether abortion at 23 weeks is right or not. It's either always been wrong, or always not been wrong.

porcamiseria - hai is indeed entitled to her opinion, just as others are entitled to disagree with it, and to take complete umbrage at the naive and judgemental way she has expressed it.

Oh and bleeding throughout pregnancy is ludicrously common.

Hai I don't think people have made shitty comments about you, there's no worse stuff on here than on some other threads, and some people have gone out of their way to be polite and give you the benefit of the doubt.

But you must have realised that abortion is an emotive topic before you started the thread. You can't slag off other people's extremely difficult choices or make sweeping statements about what people should or shouldn't do when you don't know the circumstances. Well, you can if you want but you'll get a flaming as you have discovered.

It's just a question of choice - you and lots of other women would choose not to abort and that's your decision, I respect that. But don't say you want to take away that choice for everyone else.

Absolutely agree Bagged and tagged.

90% of abortions are carried out before 13 weeks. People don't recline on a chaise-longue for months and months thinking manana manana, I must get around to arranging that abortion.

porcamiseria, I was in Morocco for a while.

Eric, when i said shit i ment silly comment about spelling and such

i think the spelling thing is a bit of a MN thing...seems to be a real bugbear for some people

Until I had DS I was generally in favour of a lower limit than 24w, say about 18w. But that was before I understood how the screening processes worked. So - seeing that so few terminations are done post-20w scan, and that of those, almost all will be for medical reasons, I think it should be left where it is.

12w is ridiculously early.

But I agree that if someone does accidentally fall pg and doesn't want it, they should make efforts to deal with it earlier rather than later, if they are able to. However, there are so many reasons why they might not be able to - fear, lack of knowledge, parental disapproval, Fluffydonkey's woman who had no clue that she was pg - would you condemn these women to carrying a child to term if they didn't want to?

You are having an emotional knee-jerk reaction and need to think things through from more people's perspective than just your own.