Can I just back off from PIL?

[Madinitials]

Had a bit of a problem with PIL wanting/expecting to see us every weekend since we had DD (now nearly 11 months) but this has been resolved.

However, FIL has always been a bit rude and patronising towards me which I let slide until DD was born and I became a bit more sensitive/bolshie/bad-arse. Anyway, things have been getting worse with him talking over me, being snidey about the way I deal with DD, and really stupid things like not giving her to me for nappy changes or when she cries. It was the last straw for me when he came over to our house and totally blanked me. I now rarely accompany DH over to their house when he takes DD to visit them. MIL noticed there was a problem and came over to ours for a chat - she thought DH and I were splitting up!! She was surprised when I told her how I felt about FIL as DH insisted I do(and even said that FIL would be "astonished"), and now her & DH want me and FIL to sit down and chat about it to clear the air.

Thing is, I don't want to chat with FIL because too much water had passed under the bridge and I find his behaviour unforgiveable. I really don't want to hear his insincere apologies, if he has any. I am happy for DH to take DD to theirs and only join them for special occasions when I shall be civil to FIL.

AIBU or even childish?

You do need to talk and then see how things are after that.

If you haven't ever spoken to him then it is abu not to even give it a go. He may not even realise what he is doing? You have nothing to lose as it's not as if you have a good relationship now.

If the talk doesn't go well then you are back in the position you're in now.
Go on, you never know what might happen! You have got years of this ahead of you!

I'm totally with you, OP. It's best to just ignore him & move on - if it were me I would feel like a child if everyone sat down to talk about my 'problem'.

I don't believe all this 'he may not realise' shite- of course the ignorant bugger realises, why would you visit someone and completely ignore them? And rudely talk over them, or ignore their wishes/requests?

No 2nd chances for me, he sounds like a twat and you will feel much better having nothing more to do with him..why should you 'clear the air' when he's been the nob?

Why don't you suggest that all four of you sit down and discuss things and be honest about what is pissing you off annoying/upsetting you.

It will get more difficult as DD gets older to not go with them and to not have them over to yours etc - she will ask why.

If things change - great. If they don't then your DH and your MIL cannot say you didn't give him a chance.

Why should you give him a second chance - because, to be honest - Life is too fucking short not to try with your husbands parents and your childs grandparents... it's not like he's done anything seriously unforgiveable is it?!

[I am in no way condoning his behaviour or suggesting you put up with it if it doesn't change, just suggesting that it is in everyone's best interest to try to sort it out]

I don't think you need to sit down and have a formal chat about it - he just needs to change his behaviour. But, you seem to have a good relationship with MIL, so for her sake, and for an easier life all round, have a quick chat over a coffee and get it sorted. He might not realise what he's doing so give him a chance. I am a hypocrite though - I haven't seen or spoken to PIL for sometime. But I know that it isn't just a case of not going over to PIL house - it can get more complicated than that.

I agree he sounds like a bit of an oaf but - on the basis of what you've said about his behaviour - "unforgiveable" is a bit strong! In your shoes I would (and have been) minded to ignore this sort of behaviour. It's not worth making things awkward and difficult for everyone else. You don't have to be best friends, just adjust your expectations of him and react accordingly.

This was me 1 year ago. My FIL actually split me and DP up. To this day I still can't believe that idiot couldn't just stop nitpicking and sniping at me for the sake of his only grandchild (the only one he and MIL are ever likely to have).

He "apologised" to me... if you can call it that but i can't say anyone was convinced, certainly not me. Even DP said he'd made a more sincere apology when caught smoking skunk.

I don't blame you if you want to cut your losses and not put yourself through this anymore. Why the hell should you? If he can't paste a cheesy smile on his nasty mouth and be civil to the mother of his grandchild, then does he really deserve to spend time with his grandchild?

We can now be in the same room together and be civil, although a little forced. Does help though that his entire family apparently think he was bang out of order now mind you, he STILL wouldn't apologise sincerely!

Just to add it wasn't the sniping that split us up- FIL was spying on me.

And told me he was.

As you do.

And that was what got to me in the end and I walked out on DP because originally he took his dad's side "coz he's my dad, I've got to".

Like it or not your in-laws are part of your family now. It's going to be very, very difficult and stressful to try to cut one person out long-term. Christmas, family events, birthday parties... without granddad? As someone else said, it can break up marriages.

The thing to do with bullies is to stand up to them, not cave in and scuttle off to hide. If he blanks you in your own home you tackle them man... 'I'll thank you not to talk over me'. And your husband has to do the same thing, incidentally. He's probably grown up thinking 'that's just how Dad is' and takes it as normal behaviour. Happens all the time. So go round to their home as a family. If you decide as a team not to tolerate his rudeness then he'll have no choice but to cooperate.

I really think you need to go through with "the Talk" excruciating as it is. Otherwise you will forever be marked out as the unreasonable one. I completely understand how you feel, but I think you should go along with this, but don't give him an easy ride, prepare yourself for it, stay calm and rebuff any denials on his part with actual instances of his rudeness/blanking etc. Good luck.

In ordinary circumstances, I can see where the TALK would be a good idea... BUT, in some cases it can make things worse.

Some men can be really funny if embarrassed by their own wrongdoing, and you sitting there accusing him of a ton of stupid stuff that he has inexplicably done, and proving him to be out and out rude could either just start an argument, and turn into a slanging match.

He could even just sit there and say it's all in your pretty little head and try and smooth it over.

After the chat, especially if it went badly, you'd both be embarrassed to be in the compnay of each other. Much better for him to just check himself and you both start with him having turned over a new leaf.

As a first attempt I would suggest that MIL deals with it. After all if one of your mates came to you and said that she thought DH was a little off, you'd probably ask him if there was a problem first and not just invite your mate round to confront him.

DH needs to tell his mum that she has to reign him in, that he needs to behave and be on his best behaviour. No need for a family conference.

Long term, You know that Chil1234 has the answer, you have to address it head on, and say that talking over you is unacceptable, that his snipey comments are rude.

Like a toddler, you will have to be consistent and firm, not letting him get away with it.

As I said in my original post, I would join them (and FIL join us of course) for celebrations and I certainly would not stop either of them from seeing DD.

You're right that DH and his mother just see it as the way he is, on one hand they were saying that's just the way he is and I'm too sensitive and on the other that he didn't mean it "like that". It's all so contradictory because MIL said that FIL doesn't do emotions and then in the next breathe that I should talk to him because I may be surprised. The only one of the family who can really sympathise is BIL who has been on the receiving end of FIL for going his own way and in FIL's words, being a failure.

I understand what you're saying that if I don't chat with him about this, everyone will see me as being the one who hasn't tried but I just feel that he'll possibly utter a worthless sorry and DH & MIL will cheer thinking that all is sorted and I'll never be able to revisit this when he reverts to old ways.

My PIL are a pain, visiting at the crack of dawn, i like everyine to give me a quick phone call before they visit, so i am dressed and ready to face the worl they won't do that either, a coupole of years ago on a shared holiday(NEVER NEVER AGAIN) FIL smacked my eldest, iwent demented in a packed eaterie, how dare you keep your hands to yourself etc, when we got back he lied ti my SIL saying that my DS was hitting another child and we were ignoring his behaviour!!!!!!! I have come to the conclusion that he is just not a nice person, i never let the boys go on their own, and i only visit with DH. I know parenting has changed since DH was a child BUT KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY KIDS. YANBU, they are part of your family, he should appologise to you don't be bullied into a chat that will achieve nothing, good luck hun

Ah, but if he does utter the 'sorry' you can make sure dh and mil know that as he said sorry, he obv was the wrongdoer, and that if things DO revert back, he has had his last chance? Let them know it now, so if he does carry on being a twat, you can remind them of this convo.

Personally,I think no 2nd chances on stuff like this. Manners are free and he chooses not to use them, why will he all of a sydden now start being nice? Cos he's not nice, so will be unable to...however, I do think ChippingIn puts forward a very good argument for one very last chance, in case he does decide to sort his arse out?

LMHF - what you're saying makes sense. MIL said she would talk to him when she got home that night (possibly to tell him it wasn't him, it was me) and just spoken to DH who is going to meet him after work tonight to discuss. This negates the need for "the talk" which I agree could easily go so wrong.

Like I said, I don't want an empty apology. He just needs to recognise and change his behaviour.

YANBU. He knows what he is doing. How can you accidently blank someone in their own home.

I wouldn't want to sit down with him either and I don't see him appologising for behaviour he is well aware of.

OOO can we make this a thread about annoying pil pleeeeeese. if i can come and moan every now and then it will save my marriage haha.
2nd marriage for me and first experince of a,atill attched umbillical cord and b,pil that live away.
I have still got my rather large marital home from first marriage(worked bloody hard to keep it) unfortunatley this makes it nice and comfy for pil and sometimes s or bil to ascend on us and stay.I dont mind but she is a teacher so it is always in school hols when i have taken time off to spend with my daughter. She is 8 and of course sometimes gets stroppy or suchlike and my pil make little comments either to me or her or roll their eyes. Makes me feel unconmfortable in my own home and the thing is my ex dh and i split up when she was a baby and has given her the run around with contacts eversince theri familt is perfect and they cannot understand how things like divorce can affect kids.
Sorry for the hi jack mad but parents not just in laws need to know their place and support their children in raising the g children and not try to take over. Stand your ground.
Char WHAT!!!omg i think i would have hit him. What a cheek have you spoken since?

" if I don't chat with him about this, everyone will see me as being the one who hasn't tried "

I think 'chatting' is the wrong approach, actually. That suggests that everyone involved is being civil and reasonable... which they're clearly not.. and that time could be set aside for cups of tea and cosy Oprah-style soul-bearing. I would instead be more opportunistic and bring things to a head ie. wait for another rude incident and then come down on him like a ton of bricks. No holds barred. This is more direct, more immediate & there is less room for wriggling out of the situation. Bullies only respond to strength. You have to prep yourself with 'the speech' (or you may forget what you want to say in the heat of the moment) and your husband has to provide total solidarity. He has to back you up. Say your piece and then demand an apology and/or leave.

You're right Chil1234, I do need to deal with it there and then and as it happens. I always feel bad about offending PIL but allow FIL to happily offend me. I think MIL and DH do envisage the Oprah-style chat you describe where I thank him for being honest, have a group hug and break open the battenburg, and that's what concerns me because I'm sure it won't turn out like that.

Madinitials - well, it would seem that MIL and DH have taken it upon themselves to deal with it, so a 'chat' isn't necessary (am I reading that right?).

So yep, from now on do as you said and deal with it each and every time he is well out of line - you sometimes have to let the tiny things go, it's families... but anything significant, pull him up on it, regardless of who is listening and don't worry about offending your MIL - she knows the score... at least then, in time, if he doesn't change you can well justify having nothing much to do with him and they can't say you didn't try.

Madinitials, although he will probably recognise his behaviour, don't expect him to change it. My FIL was similar and DH never backed me up . I dealt with it by being thoroughly pleasant to FIL, which he (FIL) hated, as I didn't appeast to be upset any longer.

Oh dear, whenever you get a family saying "that's the way he is" and excusing all sorts of rude behaviour, there is simply a selfish tyrant in the family who wants everyone to kowtow to them.

Your FIL wants you to do as he says. You don't, so he blanks you, and it is all your fault of course, as he can't do anything wrong. As no one has ever stood up to him and basically enabled his shitty behaviour all these years he will completely think he is right. the phrase "you are over sensitive" is a classic one from people who are controlling and selfish, in that he seeks to blame you, as he could never accept any blame himself.

I suspect, even if you have a chat it will be you who is forced/pressured to say you were wrong and it won't be his fault at all.

I think that you recognise your FIL for the controlling shit that he is.

Just say it straight, the rest of the family may be used to him, but in fact his behaviour is controlling and unacceptable. There is a book "controlling parents" and also "toxic parents" which may help.

You MIL and DH just will think FIL is normal, but he isn''t, he's horrible. My granny was like this, as long as you bowed and scraped to her she was lovely. If you stood up to her, she slagged you off, she tried to break up both her children's marriages as their partners refused to kowtow...this is the basis for this "thought you were splitting up" shite.

You can't deal with him reasonably as he is not reasonable.

YANBU

YANBU

my FIL is a bit like this with everyone - talks over them, complains when people don't listen, makes sniping comments and tries to control everything.

I had a bit of a confidence crisis when it came to taking DS for feeds etc etc. Now I don't ask, I just take him. I also ignore any comments as if I didn't hear them or make a sarcastic remark back if I'm in a bad mood.

I've not picked him up on his behaviour though and probably should. I just don't let him change how I would normally do things.

I'm not sure if it's a generation thing - it's like he has to be the head of the household, everyone should defer to him etc? I don't know my dad so didn't grow up with it and find it odd.