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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be mad that my daughter's school have installed CCTV in the 6th form loos

37 replies

Follyfoot · 20/07/2010 12:09

Surely they shouldnt be doing that should they? My daughter says the monitoring is done by the IT department, and that one of the guys there is really 'pervy'.

OP posts:
singsinthebath · 20/07/2010 12:10

Is it actually in the cubicles?

Colliecross · 20/07/2010 12:11

WTF?
Complain today!

pooka · 20/07/2010 12:12

If not in the cubicles, then doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I'm suspecting that there has been behaviour/incidents that necessitate the installation of cctv.

Original poster
Follyfoot · 20/07/2010 12:12

The cameras are in the bit just outside the cubicles but are visible when you are in two of the cubicles iyswim. They have been put there to 'prevent vandalism' apparently but there has never been a vandalism issue. My daughter and her friends feel very uncomfortable about the whole thing.

OP posts:
MrsC2010 · 20/07/2010 12:14

There are often smoking and other 'activities' (skiving etc) going on in school/college toilets to be honest, I suspect as long as they are not in the cubicles and can't see any toilet 'action' they are ok.

sue52 · 20/07/2010 12:16

This is appalling. Phone the head and ask who gave their authority and then get onto your local education department to find out if this is legal. This must be overstepping the bounds of privacy. If this was my daughters school, I would want someones head on the block.

Mahraih · 20/07/2010 12:16

That is slightly creepy.

I'm sure there is some sort of complaint that can be made, especially if they are in cubicles and considering these are minors.

Some pubs/clubs have them to cut down on drug taking in cubicles, but these are children.

Questions I'd be asking:

  1. Is there CCTV in other areas of the school or just this one, seemingly out of the blue?
  2. Has there been a history of bullying or violence in the loos that might warrant this move being made?
  3. Will the CCTV be constantly monitored, or only referred to if an incident occurs, and how will this be guaranteed?

The last one would probably be most important to me.

swanandduck · 20/07/2010 12:18

But what if someone wants to use the tampax machine or lift up something she's wearing to check something in the mirror. I really think this is wrong.

Carbonated · 20/07/2010 12:18

What is she worried will be picked up on the CCTV? Intimate footage of hand washing? All the private stuff is done in the cubicles I would have thought?

Back in my day there was a fair amount of smoking and, erm, sexual favour granting, in the VI form toilets which was unpleasant for those of us who were uptight virgins more conformist, and I expect it is that kind of thing that they wish to police.

Carbonated · 20/07/2010 12:20

Why would anyone worry about being filmed using a tampax machine?

toccatanfudge · 20/07/2010 12:20

\link}http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/detailed_specialist_guides/ico_ cctvfinal_2301.pdf\guidance for use of CCTV}

it's not displaying properly on my computer (need to update Adobe) - but Cameras in toilet areas should always be pointed at the wash basins, and covert filming not covered by the RIPA statute should be temporary and for a specific purpose only. (from an article on The Register where I found the link)

Original poster
Follyfoot · 20/07/2010 12:21

As I said, not actually in the cubicles, although visible from two cubicles so they are not sure what can be seen. But my daughter's concern is that sometimes they might come out of the cubicle still doing bits up, tucking things back in - you know the kind of thing I mean. Even if you are just brushing your hair, doing makeup etc, would you want your teenage girl to be watched doing that? How would you feel if there were cameras in your workplace loos?

Its a small 6th form and there have been no issues that she is aware of at all.

Not sure about the constant monitoring, thats a good question.

OP posts:
MumInBeds · 20/07/2010 12:22

The secondary school my ds is starting soon has had CCTV in the toilets for a couple of years, there was a big fuss to start with but it has improved the overall atmosphere in the school so it is accepted now.

It is wrong if the cameras can see in the cubicles with the door shut but otherwise what's the issue?

Butterbur · 20/07/2010 12:22

I think YABU, if they are outside the cubicles. What's the problem with someone seeing girls going into and out of the cubicles. There has probably been some incident - skiving, bullying or petty vandalism that has prompted this.

Perhaps you could ask that all monitoring of the girls' loos be done by a female member of staff.

swanandduck · 20/07/2010 12:22

Teenage girls feeling there was a pervy male in the IT Unit would find that very uncomfortable Carbonated. However, the point I was making was that girls in a school toilet to lots of stuff that is not wrong, but for which they require a bit of privacy.

mayorquimby · 20/07/2010 12:24

Can't see the problem once nothing in the cubicles can be seen.

Original poster
Follyfoot · 20/07/2010 12:24

Ooo thanks for that toccatanfudge, looks like IANBU!

OP posts:
MrsC2010 · 20/07/2010 12:25

They won't be watched if you see what I mean, just stored for a fortnight or whatever and then referred back to if there was an incident. Like most school CCTV I suspect. I think if they know the CCTV is there they probably won't come out of toilets tucking stuff in etc? (Not that I would anyway but you mention it.)

GeekOfTheWeek · 20/07/2010 12:25

I wouldn't be happy with cctv in my work toilets so yanbu imo.

swanandduck · 20/07/2010 12:26

If I was using the loos at work to freshen up, fix my hair, check my clothes in the mirror, put drops in my eyes etc and felt that males in the IT Unit could see me on CCTV I would feel uncomfortable and find that invasive.

Carbonated · 20/07/2010 12:28

Teenage girls are routinely filmed purchasing tampax in Superdrug and that is viewed by any number of males, pervy or otherwise.

I can't see why the school would go to the trouble and expense of CCTV in the loos unless there was a good reason for it.

I assume they are doing the same in the boys loos?

toccatanfudge · 20/07/2010 12:28

thing is though you may BU but only if they're not facing the wash basins (or from how I read it) if they're being constantly monitored.

At a guess I would say that a teacher who is paid to teach isn't going to be sat monitoring it all hours of the day. He may just be "in charge" of the stuff (given that it's all IT and technical stuff) and the one that will be called upon to retrieve stuff from the recording should any incidents occur.

GOTW - I wouldn't be happy about cctv in my work toilets...........but I've never seen any petty vandalism or bullying work toilets, unlike when I was at school and it was common place

Carbonated · 20/07/2010 12:30

There was CCTV in the loos in my first office and we all knew that. It didn't bother me. People apply makeup on the tube, it isn't a very private thing.

A couple were caught shagging in the disabled loo and fired (no CCTV in the loo, just the entrance hall).

RubberDuck · 20/07/2010 12:30

I would be seriously pissed off and would complain. Is there CCTV in the boys' toilets?

If you don't get anywhere with the school - it might be worth emailing these people for suggestions: Open Rights Group - they don't just campaign about copyright but have experience with privacy, data protection, CCTV, RFID etc too.

Nemofish · 20/07/2010 12:31

Would love to know how the teachers would feel about cameras in their toilets - assuming that they have not been installed there.