to reduce my working days despite my husband's reluctance?

[tortoiseonthehalfshell]

I'm thinking of cutting my working hours to spend more time with my toddler. Haven't raised it with husband yet. Know he's going to worry about money. Feel like I'm not holding my end up.

I work four days a week as a solicitor. I have a 20 month old daughter. I don't work the insane hours that most city lawyers do, but it's still a massive struggle to work long enough hours to make budget and still be home each evening to eat dinner with, play with, bathe and do bedtime with my toddler. I find it quite stressful.

My husband is a fulltime PhD student on a generous scholarship, who also "works" four days a week, due to graduate in a year. His working days and mine overlap two days a week, and she's in nursery for those two days; he does the nursery run.

I earn more than he does, but only by about 25%; I'm still quite junior, and his scholarship is both generous and tax-free.

We have been together 12 years, and are both very financially cautious, so we got into the property market very young, delayed having children till our thirties, live modestly, and are consequently now mortgage-free. We have no personal debt except my student loans and we have a small investment nest egg. If I cut back by a day a week, our income goes down such that we'll have to cut back on luxuries; fortnightly cleaner, weekends away, etc. We'd have to stick to a budget, which we don't bother with currently. I have absolutely no issue with this.

I miss my daughter desperately when I'm at work. Because I want to maximise seeing her, I don't do anything out of work hours that I can't take her to; so I don't go to the gym or for a run, I don't see movies or meet friends for a gossip, I resent going to the hairdresser. Not the end of the world, but still.

So my boss is supportive, I can afford it, my daughter is in nursery less, everyone wins, right?

But I cannot shake the feeling that it's somehow immoral of me to cut back on work just because I have more fun hanging out with my daughter. And my husband tends to panic about money. And he supported me through the Law degree on the basis that I'd then support him while he did the PhD, and while I still can do (I'm not saying to him, changed my mind sonny, off you pop and get a real job) would he be reasonable to feel that I'm not sticking to my end of the bargain? Asking him to cut back on luxuries/lose his comfort zone margin financially? He's stuck to his end, after all - he does the nursery run and a huge chunk of the housework which all makes my life much more possible, he works hard at the PhD which is incredibly important to him. And here I am, saying "sorry, don't want to work really, would rather spend my days at home with my daughter, hope you weren't planning on any new clothes this year".

Would you feel it unreasonable if your partner said to you that he'd decided to cut back his days so that he could stay home with his kids? Is that purely his decision, as long as the household can afford it?

I don't think you are being at all unreasonable - you sound extremely considerate, and like you have thought this through.
You are still sticking to your end of the bargain - you are only dropping a day, not quitting your job - and if you are willing to drop some luxuries and know you will be financially ok, then why not?
There is no reason to feel bad just because you enjoy hanging out with your daughter! That's great, for you, for her, and for your household if you feel less stressed.
Your hubby might surprise you anyway - talk to him!

I think if it is only luxuries you will have to cut back on then you should go for it. You can always increase your days later on when your dd is older. Our household income dropped by 50% when I stopped working totally after dc2. The fact that we are still ok financially has made me realise how much we used to fritter away on non-essentials. And you will be saving on nursery fees too.

Yes there are times when I am slightly envious of people going off on nicer holidays than us but at the same time I'm not sure I'd really enjoy those sorts if holidays as much now with dcs in tow!

I think men do tend to panic about money - it's how they're programmed. Your instincts are to take care of your daughter and be with her as often as you can. Perfectly normal. Thank God for our maternal instincts.

Are you me, Tortoise Actually I think you have replied to me on similar threads of mine.

I am working full time to support my "d"h while he does a degree, and I HATE it, especially now while both he and dd are on summer holiday, hanging out every day while I sit in a stinky hot office with miserable people I negotiated with my work to reduce my hours to 80% but "d"h made me feel so guilty about the money side of things that I backed down.

(Sorry, we had a big row about this AGAIN last night so you have hit a nerve)

Everything you say in your post about missing your dd, not doing things outside work so you can be with her etc etc are exactly true for me.

Obviously I do not think you are being unreasonable. Wanting to be with your daughter is right and understandable. But I also am not being unreasonable but cannot bring myself to do it either. So, no help, but a lot of empathy from me

Also, are you resenting him? If you are anything like me, the time you are not spending with your daughter is eating you up inside. I feel so much frustration and anger towards my dh (who promised me that after 3 years he would start working but turns out he cannot for at least another semester) that it is affecting our relationship very badly. That is also a factor that you may want to take into consideration.

Glad you understand, heading (although, sorry it's hard for you).

For most of our relationship he's outearned me, and he worked in a job he loathed for many years. Not because of me, or anything; I've always earned enough to at least support myself, pre-children, even as a student. But I think that comes into play. He worked a job he hated for years, why can't I make myself work fulltime?

I think partly, it's because I find looking after her so easy and so fun that it doesn't feel at all like work (obviously I'd take over more of the housework, too. I already do all the cooking. But that's not really work either). So it doesn't feel like I'm choosing between paid and unpaid work, rather between paid work and hanging out in parks playing. Which makes my Inner Puritan twitchy.

X-post. I am resenting him, but it's for a different-but-related reason. He doesn't want a second child until he's handed in the thesis, which is understandable, but the thesis is being delayed by factors totally outside his control. His scholarship binds him to using a certain government department to analyse specimens, and they are taking up to 8 months to return results to him.

So it's not really his fault, at all. He's very conscientious. I encouraged him to do the PhD, he was terrified about giving up work and not earning much money, and he's put a huge amount of effort into it.

But, fuck, I so want a second child, and I hate the feeling that it's out of my control AND I don't get to spend enough time with the one I have.

But I'm not asking him to stop the PhD. Just not freak out that I want to cut hours.

Argh. Sorry. Keep feeling like there's something else under the surface going on here, but don't know what it is. Thought I'd be such a good career woman working mother person. Actually want 5 children and to stay at home making jam.

After his phd how easy will it be for him to get a job? Especially when hopefully you'll be on maternity leave?

Okay do talk to him about how you feel. After all this is a precious time that you will never get back (heading I think you need to have the frank talk too). No one ever says on their death bed "I wish I'd spent more time at the office". She will soon be at school, then growing up so fast you don't know it, and then a teenager who is vaguely embarassed by your existence (which doesn't mean they don't love you btw).

Do talk about how you feel, what are the important things in your lives etc.

Good luck!

You only work a day over half the week though.There is still the other half plus the evenings to see her so I'm not sure the issue is really work.

I think you feel as if you are missing out on something. Obviously you won't get her early years back but to be honest they are hardly the most simulating for you and she won't remember them anyway.Half a week sounds good to me especially if you have your husband to do half too. Then you can plan to free up some time when IMHO it becomes really vital ie next year...when she needs you to make things, talk things through and she will appreciate you being less stressed.
Good luck with your choice....it'll work out fine whatever you decide, you sound very nice and sensible!

Tortoise - I suspect you're from a strong work ethic, I also used to be very ambitious but changed when I had kids. Basically babies need looking after whether that's an enjoyable experience or not. This extra time you've found to be with your child is doing her development the world of good. Your husband's head is elsewhere in his studies, understandable, which means you;re doing the right thing to address the balance.

Men need to be told to quit stop worrying about the money - someone has to be 'present' and in tune to the kids' needs.

I can totally emphatise - I think the second dc thing is probably exacerbating things. I had always planned to take a career break when I had dc2 - unfortunately I had secondary infertility so it took longer than I thought. I used to see mothers out & about with their toddlers on sunny days from my office window and feel jealous. It wasn't the sort of job you could do part-time & I also had the sort of work ethic where I couldn't feel justified stopping work completely....

What's your maternity package like? It might make sense to go for DC2 if working more hours now means you get more maternity pay and then you will know you have more time coming up with DC1. Will his PhD take more than a year to finalise? Babies don't arrive immediately, as you know!

tortoise you have answered my suggestion which was to have a second child and go on maternity leave - hence more time for your daughter....

I don't think you sound unreasonable at all. They are young for such a short time. Could you discuss it with him on the basis that she's already nearly 2 and will be at school in a couple of years and that you have plenty of time to earn more money once she is at school?

it seems such a shame to slog through this time when you want to spend time with DD, when you would still be working 3 days a week. It's not like you're saying "I fancy lounging around as a lady who lunches, now get out to work and start earning to support me".

I am much more unreasonable than you, and have basically told my DH that I may want another child within 18 months of this one; oh, and I may not go back to work in between. AND we have a mortgage.

(please don't mention this to anyone IRL as obviously to my work colleagues I am planning on coming back like a good little worker....)

tortoise - YANBU but... I think you have to also take a reality check.

Dont believe for one moment that you are really going to get a day off every week. You wil get phone calls on your day off, and I can guarantee nw you will end up working 5 days but only getting paid for 4. I can guarantee you will end up workig at weekends to make up for the day off or working at night but not getting paid.

All our female City friends who did this say that clients and colleagues do not respect the fact you are working a 4 day week. They work 5 and they need your imput when they need it. All our female friends ended up being underpaid and overlooked for promotion.

Sorry to add to your concerns but being paid for 4 days but actually stil really working 5 is just going to add to your guilty feelings about this and I suspect DH will be very annoyed when that happens and tell you that you might as well get paid for 5 days if you are working 5 days.

BeenBeta - I'm answering for Tortoise here (sorry!) but although I think what you say is probably right in London, we're in Adelaide and it's very different here....

I second BeenBeta unfortunately. I've seen this happen to many of my colleagues. There were many suggestions that I should move to fewer days when my DD (now 2.10) was born but I knew that would just mean doing the same amount of work but being paid less.

Having said all of that, if you are strong enough to switch your work phone off on the days when you're not working and absolutely do not work when you're not there, I think people will quickly get used to this. It dpeends on your personality and the attitude of your colleagues really.

BeenBeta, Ozzie is right - I already work a four day week (and have been for a year), I'd be cutting down to a three day week, and no-one expects me to work on the fifth day. I work with a lot of part-timers, and unless they're at partner level they don't even check their email on non-work days.

Duplo - maternity package = 6 weeks of pay. So yes, if I went down to 3 days, I'd get 3 days x 6 weeks instead of 4 days x 6 weeks. And trust me, I KNOW about babies not arriving immediately, I'm pushing for TTC #2 in a few months on that basis, words cannot express how deeply, deeply risk-averse my husband is, though. With #1, he talked me into delaying an extra two months after our agreed date (which doesn't sound like much, but this is 2 months plus the five years I'd already waited) "in case the baby was premature".

This adds to my guilt, actually - I already have it really cushy, for a lawyer (and for a working mother, given how flexible and hands-on my husband is) (not flexible in a yogic sense, obviously) and yet I can't cope.

"have basically told my DH that I may want another child within 18 months of this one; oh, and I may not go back to work in between. AND we have a mortgage"

Right. But. I'm honestly not starting a fight, I think you're probably perfectly reasonable, I'm just drilling down to My Issues: How do you DO that? How do you just tell your partner that this is what you want, and expect him to fit in with it? I genuinely don't understand how that works, what if he doesn't want to be the sole earner? Or have two children close together?

Fair enough.

All I would say is if you are going to do this tortoise there has to be a written agreement in place. Absolutely no contact on your day off or if there is you will bill an hourly rate equivalent to your hourly salary plus bonus added on top of your normal pay for every extra minute you work.

Knowing there is a cost attached to phoning you or asking you to do anything will focus minds.

If you are worried about asking for that fair pay policy - dont go to a 4 day week.

I'm already on a 4 day week, as I said twice upthread. But I appreciate the advice.

tortoise well, to be honest, it's a bit more complicated. It's actually DH who is keen for us to have two close together.

But at the same time, we are probably moving back to Sydney in the next couple of months as he has been offered a new job there.

So he is basically making me leave my job in any event (he accepts this). What I don't want to do is go to Syd, get a job when DC is 12 months or so, and then announce I'm pregnant 5 minutes later. I would prefer not to go back to work, have more time with DC and then go back properly and ready to work once my childrearing is out of the way.

I may get a contract type role for a while though.

We are sort of playing it by ear though as I may want to go back sooner.

Also, and this makes a big difference; I am by far a smaller contributor to the family purse anyway.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread!

I haven't read anything but OP - but why is this all or nothing?

If you have the luxury of a sensible boss, a sensible family attitude to money etc, can you not go down to three days while she is a toddler, with a view to going back up to 4 days as she goes to school?

I think that when you have children you have to start being a little bit more flexible about money and so your husband needs to get over his anxiety. You've paid off your mortgage which is amazing! Have you done budgets, seen how you can get by on working 3 days?

I think deciding about when to have more children cannot be all about money - it's so much bigger than that and I think that's what your husband needs to think about. It's about what's best for all of you as a family. It will be harder work at first but easier as they get older if you have two children closer together. And I don't like to get personal but the older you get the harder it can be to conceive.

I work full time and if I weren't a single parent there is no way I'd work this many hours. It seems to me that the 5/2 work/non work split of the standard working week is very badly skewed in any case

YANBU. You sound like a supportive wife and mother. I work 4 days a week and spend most of my time eaten up in bitter resentment that somehow I end up doing 90% of the ongoing household chores. I'm currently restructuring my work to reduce hours and grade as quite frankly I'm fed up with it, doesn't help that I don't enjoy my job at the minute, but also I want to be able to look back and say that I was there to pick up DS from school run some of the time and able to make it along to the majority of school land marks such as nativity plays and sports day.

It is always difficult to measure less quantifiable things against cold hard cash but there is the benefit to your DD of spending more time with her mother in formative years which is generally accepted to be a good thing and for you to feel you have more balance in your life. I guess the one person who doesn't directly "get" anything out of it is your DH which is where the bad feelings are coming from. I think you need to work out what is important to him and try and pitch it from that angle.

"How do you just tell your partner that this is what you want, and expect him to fit in with it? "

You don't. You tell him what you want to do and then discuss it. I have sympathy - I worked full-time when my eldest DC were little and I never quite shook the idea that I was being short-changed. But you cannot make a decision unilaterally that will change both your lives but only bring benefits to you. Having a child is not a trump card - it doesn't make it OK to make dramatic decisions and then expect everylne else to fit in around it. Sorry,that sounds harsher than I meant but you see what I mean.

Talk to him. Explain your reasoning. Lay out exactly what the difference to your income will mean. Then discuss it.

BTW the guilt part kicked in for me when they were at school and I wasn't there to pick them up or go to play or go on trips. IMO it's just as important to work fewer hours - maybe 9-3? - when she is at school. She will appreciate that just as much, if not more.