another old chestnut - how friends without children expect us to behave

[kickassangel]

ok, we moved less than 2 years ago, so these friends are relatively new.

but i am starting to get v fed up - actually pissed off to the point of telling them to f* off.

we have friends who we both get on well with, and we like doing things together, but it seems to be increasingly obvious that they want us to 'ditch' dd whenever their plans aren't child friendly.

they're v nice to dd, and chat away with her etc if we do things where she's involved, BUT when they want an 'adult' time, e.g. going to a festival, drinking eve type things, their stock reply is 'get a babysitter' followed by them trying to 'persuade' me (in a charming, but totally unwilling to change their minds way, which feels more like bullying) to fit in with their plans.

there have been a few times when dh has gone out with the husband, and the wife & i made plans, but if i can't/won't get a babysitter, or i don't want to drink & drive (which they think is fine, we have 'discussed' this) then the wife drops out, usually at the last minute. i can only assume that she just doesn't want to have to adapt her behaviour around dd.

so this weekend, we're all going to see a band at a local festival. they want to set off about 3 to get there in time to sit around & drink. they will also smoke dope. they don't get that i want to turn up later, and not pay for hours of babysitting, we are likely to get home well after midnight. the entire conversation is about why/how i should arrange a babysitter for the whole afternoon.

my point is this
a) they just don't 'get' that i can't drop dd when it suits their arrangements, in fact i may not wish to do that, and
b) surely, friends should discuss how to reach a compromise in these situations, not try to browbeat people into joining in with them.

tbh, i would rather drive separately anyway, they think it's fine to have 'a few drinks' (e.g. a bottle of wine or more) then drive home, they also believe that smoking dope doesn't affect their driving skills. personally, i'd rather be the one to stay sober, specially as dd will get me up at 7 the next morning.

so, AIBU to think that these people are 'fair weather' friends, not the kind you can rely on?

They don't sound very nice people tbh

They just don't get it and they won't until they have kids of their own, at which point the friendship will probably blossom again!

Just stick to your guns and continue to explain that your DD is not a doll that can be put away when you don't want to play with her. If they don't like it, tough.

I'm amazed they didn't drop you like a hot potato the minute you had your DD by the sounds of it! So they get a few points for hanging in there but really dont have any idea...

It is probably more to to do with the activities they want to do rather than the friends themselves. I would find different friends who enjoy the same entertainment as you.

Never heard the term "fair weather" before but agree with compo. Think you need some more friends tbh drink/ dope and driving I have an issue with. See them here and there if you wish but find some other friends.

Dump 'em. Life's too short to be adapting the little social time you have to suit them.

I am always overly accommodating to our friends with kids because (a)they're my friends and their children are an extension of that friendship and (b) it's not forever, is it, and kids aren't kids for long!

Spend your time with friends who are as flexible as you and make the most of your family - you sound very reasonable to me!

Good luck.

x

sorry, I think for some people it is just impossible for them to 'get' what having children means unless and until they do it themselves. I was probably guilty of that myself. If it is annoying you, I doubt they will change unless you are good enough friends that you can sit down and have an honest chat about it. But the friends i have had who sound like them are now no longer friends as the gulf between us just got wider and wider....

Mmm...they really don't get it, do they? I had several child-free friends when I had dd; some of those friendships died, others blossomed because the other friend understood that my priorities had changed and that I couldn't do so many things that I'd earlier taken for granted.

As for dope and drinks followed by driving home... . I would not have done this even before having children! And now, dh and I take turns to drink when we go out, because one adult has to be sober enough to take charge if an emergency crops up in the night. In any case, neither dh nor I get spectacularly drunk/high unless dd is at her grandparents'. I don't want dd to see either of us in that condition iyswim

I can't see that this friendship is going to last very long without lots and lots of compromise from your side

they have never wanted kids, and hope never to have them.

we both get on well with both of them, they're nice to dd, chat & play with her (she's 6), but they still live the life of carefree 20 somethings (in their late 30s, early 40s) and just don't seem to get that we can't just switch off at will. that's not the bit that bothers me.

it's that whenever this happens, they try to persuade me to agree with them. the other week, we were in the pub & i told dh not to have another pint as he was driving home, they started telling me how drink/drive regs were over cautious, he'd be fine etc. i managed NOT to lose my temper, but there was 20 mins of me having to defend the decision to NOT to drink & drive.

i'm v anti drink/drive, but wouldn't spend 20 mins trying to convert them to live by my rules, why should i have to change who i am to fit in with their lifestyle?

They just sound irreponsible in general. I know lots of child free people who wouldn't dream of drinking and driving, taking drugs etc. Most of them grew out of that in their twenties and, quite frankly, just grew up. I certainly didn't behave in that way before I had dd and ds. I don't think your post really has anything to do with child free v parents, just different mind sets.

Would you break the law and put your lives (and others) at risk to suit anyone else?

Yeah that would annoy me too.

I agree with swanandduck

There's a lovely phrase for people like this... 'Kidults'... well over 21 but still acting like irresponsible teenagers with the dope, heavy drinking and festivals etc. Growing up is a scary prospect. They don't want real children in the picture (their own or anyone else's) because this will mean they have to behave like adults. Parents, by and large, have to be more responsible and mature by definitions.

I think they sound like the types that are best enjoyed in small quantities and when you have access to an overnight babysitter. Don't let them bully you into thinking you're the peculiar ones.

In fairness, I have seen some very irresponsible parents around. Getting off their face in the pub with their kids running around, smoking in the car with children in the back and so on and so on.

the problem is, this is dh's only 'man' friend outside of work, the two guys have a great time going to see bands together. it's a small town, we usually see them at least once a week. we get on great when things do work out, but it's just this thing of their lack of flexibility.

i think they like to see themselves as 'young at heart', breaking the mold etc. well, nice for them. i like being a mum & having a family & the responsibility that goes with it. i don't want to ditch it and stay out partying til 3 am too often (still do sometimes, but making sure that dd is looked after).

i just don't get why they can't let me be like that. i'm not trying to stop their fun, just don't want to join in all the time. and they won't compromise by saying, ok, we'll go an hour later, or whatever would make it easier.

i now feel like i don't want to go out this sat, i've had enough of doing what they want. (sulk).

I think the issues have to be seperated.
Drink driving etc. is not on regardless of who in the group has children.
The initial issue I don't see as being unreasonable.
Sometimes they don't want to spend time around your child and you feel this is impositioning you etc. (dropping out and what not)
sometimes you can't/won't get a babysitter and they feel it is impositioning them.
I don't think either is unreasonable or else both are.

To be honest OP I think you're being very unfair to childless couples here. This is an irresponsible couple, they are not typical of people without children. Most people, when they get to a certain stage in life, want to grow up and leave some things behind them. It is not because you're a Mum that you find this couple annoying, it's because you have grown up, like most people do.

Realistically the things they enjoy doing are just not child friendly.

That means either they start choosing more child friendly activities, or you will not be able to see so much of them.

I don't really see a third option.

I wouldn't want to have them as friends or have them anywhere near my child due to their attitudes to drink driving and drugs so I'd be glad of a reason to not have anything to do with them...I don't think I'd ever be able to find a babysitter in that situation.

quimby, i agree, but the conversation always ends up being why we should get a babysitter & fit in with them, there never seems to be a conversation about how to make a half way agreement. for e.g. when the men were out for a night, i said come round for some drinks t the wife. she agreed, then she tried to make it go out for drinks - i couldn't do that as dd had things on & couldn't get a babysitter, so then she felt too tired after work & bailed on me.

then her facebook page said how she'd sat on her deck, drinking & enjoying the sunset.

similarly, we're trying to fix up going to see a movie as a group. between us, we have something on every night. so they suggested that we get a babysitter & just make dd miss her dance class one night. NO suggestion that one of them missed one of their weekly things for a night to fit round us.

they just seem to assume that dd is an 'add on' rather than a real person, and THEN they go on about why/how it's easy to get a babysitter, leave her with friends etc. i don't expect them to see the practical problems themselves, but just not to argue that we should fit in with them all the time.

they are good time people, and at least they know they wouldn't cope with kids, but i'm fed up with defending myself, AND being dumped when i don't fit in with their plans.

but as i can't avoid them, i can't tell them to just feck off next time they start.

actually, i'm beginning to realise just how much it annoys me. we do have a good laugh when we get together. when we first got to know them, there seemed to be more compromise - it's recently that i've felt under fire to join in with them.

dh works near them so he quite often joins up for a drink after work, then dd & i turn up later, so it isn't him that is seen as bringing the child along, iyswim.

i think the only way forward is to gradually 'cool' the contact, particularly between me & the wife, but let dh have his man friend, while i stay more casual about it.

How would it work if your husband and the man were just mates and you dropped the couple aspect to this? Seems to me that the woman doesn't really want you as a friend one-on-one (or she'd have been happy sat chatting on your patio looking at sunsets) but that she only sees you as a way to 'make up a foursome'.

It's funny isn't it? Once you're 'friends' with people they're harder to break off with than spouses.

chil - me & the woman get on v well when we do meet up. she also gets on well with dd. she cuts our hair & we get 'mate rates', we're also in the same wine club, BUT i'm beginning to think she is a little too fond of her wine. i wouldn't say she's out of control, but she never goes a day without.

he used to work with dh, and a lot of the wives socialise, so i can't just drop them, it would be the town gossip for weeks.

it's just that there have been a lot of times recently when i've been made to feel unreasonable for being the party pooper, i was actually losing perspective on this.

she also has anxiety issues, so sometimes she feels insecure about leaving the house. however, that insecurity vanishes when there's a bottle of wine at the end of the road.

omg guys they don't have children, in my pre children days i would have a drink on a daily basis (i ran pubs as did most of my friends and those that didn't drank in them) and enjoyed it!!! i didn't have a problem, i was young and behaving accordingly. Very few of those friendships have carried over to married with children, but many are coming over to the breeding way of thinking people without kids do forget that we have to be the reponsible adults, i don't think its delibrate just a bit thoughtless, like we all were!! couldn't do with the drink and drug driving though, don't get me wrong i like the odd drink now and again, but def don't get in a car with a drinker, explain how you feel, bet she feels worse after that conversation than you do nowxxx