Advice really needed on shared finances

[clams]

Reading the thread by the woman whose fiancée is controlling her through money has gotten me thinking and I really need some advice.

I am hopeless with money. I hate any awkwardness about it so end up paying more than my fair share for things/always being the one to go up to the bar first/etc.

When I met DH 7 years ago we were both skint and led separate financial lives, occasionally subbing each other if the other one was out of money. I had a flat that he moved into and paid me some money towards the bills. 5 years or so I got a good job and a 100% pay rise. So I paid for more than him (whilst treading around his male ego), started paying into a pension for him, bought both our gym memberships, general stuff but we still kept separate accounts. And to be fair to DH that suited me too as if we had a joint account and he saw I'd spent £300 on clothes he would have gone on and on as he is a bit tight and hates spending money on clothes.

(His family are v odd about money and for Christmas everyone gives everyone else £30 cash. I bought them presents one year and they insulted me and went in a mood. So he has this weird thing about us both being absolutely equal, which I think in a relationship with give and take is difficult at any one time.)

This year I've had a baby and lost my job. The maternity allowance wont cover the mortgage and I have only 2 months mortgage contributions in my account left and he just expects me to get another job now (baby is 10 w.o.) to cover mortgage and childcare.

I am a bit frivolous and although my flat provided us with enough money for a deposit for our house I haven't saved any of these extra earnings - I'm annoyed with myself about this.

I have asked DH to sit down and work out money and he has been vague, postponed it and said how he has a credit card bill to clear (he bought me an eternity ring which I love but I don't think he should clear that bill at expense of our mortgage and me having to leave a 3 mo baby with a stranger).

Writing this out we sound like total fools. I need to raise this with him but I'm worried about how to go about it as any money conversation ends up in a row, him being evasive and me just saying I'll pay for the bulk of things to stop him being weasely and me crying in frustration.

Is he being controlling? Am I just being a sucker? What do I propose money wise to be reasonable?

DH and I have a spreadsheet that has our budget in it and each month we update our salaries. the spreadsheet then works out how much we should each pay into the joint account according to the proportions of our salaries to cover the bills.

So if bills come to 12 and I earn 20 and he earns 4 the spreadsheet would say that i pay 20 into the account and he pays 2. does that make sense.

What we do with the rest of our money is up to us - as long as the joint stuff is covered jointly then life is fine.

TBH it sounds like your OH is being a bit of an arse - although you probably should have budgeted a bit better in the 'good times' too - but that is easy to say and harder to do....speaking as someone with no debts but no savings.....

sorry that should say that I pay 10 into the account and he pays 2

What the??? Are you solely responsible for the upkeep of your family? How can he think that paying the mortgage is just your responsibility? Are you the only one named on the mortgage? If your not then he will soon find that the bank holds him responsible too. And as for going back to work with a 3 month old...for gods sake! I think it sounds like you have been too generous for too long. Make sure you from now on (when you have a new job etc) only pay for the things that matter, i.e. the mortgage and that you never ever again pay for anything which can be considered his own costs (gym membership etc). Also, if he doesn't contribute to the mortgage you do realise that despite you putting in money for deposit etc etc he may have a claim to half of it if you divorce/split up? Sounds to me like you need to get your financial and legal circumstances looked at as he's not pulling his weight. Hate to say this but you may have been taken for a ride for a good while.

So does he have a job? Does he pay for anything?

Hi Knitter - sorry, but he sounds like a right git.

You both made a baby, so you're both responsible for the expense - and you can hardly go back to work having only just given a birth.

He is being controlling - take control back now and issue an ultimatum, and put together a fair and reasonable spreadsheet. Try and and have a normal and unemotional discussion with him about it. If he doesn't like it tell him you'll have to get a lodger to pay the bills, and he'll have to move out.

Good luck. xx

Are you married to this man? Because if you are, he is equally responsible for the mortgage as you are. He is also equally responsible for the cost of childcare and every other cost related to your child.

He is also liable for your creditcard bills and any other debts so if you get into arrears, he has to clear it. You need to point out that you don't want to get into that state where charges start to be incurred because it's just a waste of money and that he needs to assume responsibility for the next nine months at least.

And definitely stop paying for anything for him. Let him pay his own pension, gym etc. God, some men!

My view has always been that once a couple is married (and especially once they have children) then all their earnings and all their outgoings are shared. That includes mortgage, childcare, gym membership, eternity rings, whatever.

Do you even know how much he is earning or what debts he has? Sounds like you may not?

I would say that is the first thing to find out. Once you know that, you can sit down and work out all your family income, all your family debts, and all your family outgoings. Then you can both decide whether you really need to go back to work or whether you can afford to stay home longer.

My fiance and I pay the same amount into a joint account each month - it covers mortgage, food, bills, joint socialising. The rest of the money is ours in our own account. We're getting married in Oct, and I'm pregnant, so things will change then, but it's a nice system for now.

vino erm I think you mean clams... My DH is just fine thanks

Oh Christ, sorry Knitter!

Baby due next week and clearly I have finally now given in to senseless ranting!

xx

Knitter congratulations on not having married an arse Your system sounds like exactly the sort of thing I need to suggest - my 'income' for the purpose of the discussion can be the maternity allowance and child benefit.

Thanks everyone else for supportive comments. I have wondered if he described the situation in parallel whether he might say 'my wife won't talk about money and so just throws cash at any situation to diffuse it' but I think that's charitable - he has taken advantage but I've let him by not holding my ground.

Every discussion we've ever had about money goes along the lines of:
Me ' We need to sort out finances.'
Him ' I paid for dinner 2 weeks last Thursday, I know you wish I earned more.'
Me: 'FFS that has nothing to do with it, why are you inflaming this conversation?'
Him: 'If you're so upset you're swearing perhaps we can't afford to go to your best friend's wedding/on booked holiday whatever.' (This part can be drawn out for some time!!)
Me: 'Oh I'll just agree to whatever you say as this row is dreadful.'

In answer to questions, yes the mortgage is joint, yes he has got a job and he pays for some bills, although nowhere near half. Which to me seemed fair when I earned more but that should cut both ways.

There's a saying that 'when money goes out of the door, love flies out of the window'. It's a tough conversation to have but you need to start somehow. Pick your moment... everyone has to be feeling constructive and relaxed.... and be well-prepared. I would start by being up to speed with the essential joint expenses.... bills, mortgage, groceries, insurance... and work out exactly what you spend in each category. That's your base-line that you need to survive each month. You should know what your income is as a couple... if not, get one of his pay-slips.

If you have the facts in front of you and have a solution ready and waiting 'I think we should open a joint account for all the bills' 'you could transfer this CC balance to a 0% card' (or whatever) then you overcome the other objection a lot of people have to financial management which is that it is 'too hard'. Present a few answers rather than just posing the problem and you might get somewhere. Good luck

Well he can't expect you to carry on paying what you were paying when you were earning.

On the other hand you can't expect him to suddenly start paying enough to cover the contribution you were previously making.

It seems likely that you're going to (as a couple) have to reduce your outgoings to reflect your reduced income. The only way you can sensibly do that is to sit down and work out where to make the cuts. It may be painful but the alternative is getting into more debt or one or both of you building resentment about your relative earning/spending patterns.

You do HAVE to talk about it. Why not try putting the information you do have into a spreadsheet (MoneySavingExpert has some helpful budgetting templates) and then showing it to him?

Oh dear. I think this man is a parasite and wants to continue being one.
Why does he earn so little? Is it because the work he does is something worthy (charitable work/caring/conservation or something) but low-paid? or is it because he's a lazyarse?

vino no problem

clams
I suggest you sit down together and start by working out your current budget/outgoings - tool here.
Then work out where you can cut cost of your expenditure i.e. switch electricity suppliers, cancel charity DD's etc etc
Get all you bank and credit card statements out and share everything with each other.

obviously easier said than done but it's the only way really. And get a joint account like Chil suggested

That's a shitty situation. TBH the family sound like they have two areseholes and no head when it comes to money so no surprise he's a bit nuts about it.

Sounds like you need a balls out conversation about it all but he will try and evade that at all costs.

DH and I have joint account and our own accounts (legacy), we put in x amount each month to the joint to cover mortgage, bills etc. We tend to just say well you get the shopping and petrol this month and I'll get the other bits. There is a £5k gap between earnings so DH tends to pay for more stuff but then he's crap with money. lol.

However now I'm in the family way we are going to budget properly, only debt is mortgage and after a (budget) final two of us holiday we should have the spend out the way with a few month left to save (ha).

That's the theory.

We have had good chat about finances, I felt a bit odd as it's the first time I won?t have been earning since being a student when baby is born! DH is cool with it though and that settled me on the principle.

That's all been a worry for me so you must be climbing the ruddy walls.

We've had a couple of different ways of doing it - one pre-kids, one since - see if either of these make sense for you:

Option 1:
-work out joint bills (make sure you put everything shared in there - including food/clothes for baby without being extravagant)
-work out total net income, and the % of it you each make up
-each pay that % of the joint bills into a joint account, and then the rest is yours to do with as you wish

Option 2:
-work out joint bills (make sure you put everything shared in there - including food/clothes for baby without being extravagant)
-work out total net income, and the total remaining after paying all the joint bills
-divide this by two
-each pay an amount into the joint account that leaves you with an equal disposable income after bills

We've gone from option 1 to 2 recently, as I earn a lot more than my other half so I had more left which meant I ended up feeling like I had to pay for more general things anyway. I ended up suggesting that we do option 2 to make us both feel equal in terms of walking around money, and it's really helped.

Hope that helps a bit in terms of tactics - not sure how to help you bring it up with him if it's awkward.

Good luck though - it definitely needs to be more fair than it currently is.

Sounds awful. Who is he suggesting pays for the childcare fees?

OP - you need to talk to him. If need be, tell him you're looking for another job, but it's unlikely you'll find anything this month, therefore being paid before your money runs out. So does he want to discuss it, or will you just assume he'll take over paying for everything if you've not found something in the next 4 weeks?

If he says fine, then say, ok, I pay out XXX amount each month in all the bills, I assume as you don't want to talk about it, then you have that much spare each month.

If he suggests cancelling going to weddings etc, call his bluff, say "I think you're right, it's silly spending £300 going to a wedding when we're facing loosing the house. Well of course they'll repossess if you don't pay the mortgage, and you know I can't...."

You really need to drum it in to him this won't go away.

Some men really need to grow up. And I'm afraid you've helped him stay childish by 'looking after' him.

I simply can't imagine having a child with someone, without having had a serious conversation about how this child will be supported in it's early years. I know I shouldn't say that bcause it doesn't help you now but...oh well anyway you know how and why you're in this mess

NOW is the time then to have the serious chat about what kind of life you want for your child, what kind of upbringing you want to give. which means when/where/how much you work

I think you need to keep calm and not allow him to inflame things because this is now not about you but about the child you have had with this man.

I think i would make very clear to him that you need to get through this conversation and that the reason you need to do this is your child's childhood, which only happens once for a few short years. He does need imo to step up to the plate and meet his fatherly responsibilities but he does need you, imo, to spell out very clearly what you actually want.

My DH and I have totally joint finances - I can't imagine it being any other way! All of our assets and liabilities are totally shared. I don't feel like I need to have my "own" money to spend on things, or that he ought to do the same. If either of us want anything, we would usually mention it to the other first if it is a big purchase, but there is no need to ask permission. As far as I am concerned, he works hard and earns lots of money, and if he wants to spend it something that he would enjoy and we can afford then he should feel free. I do exactly the same. He sometimes gets fed up when I but ANOTHER mulberry bag - but to be fair, he is usually right when he thinks something is unjustified and overpriced! Having separate finances, or a spreadsheet or having to borrow off each other really doesn't seem very married to me, but if it works for some people I am not knocking it.
The OP's comment about the eternity ring is a classic example of separate finances leading to problems - her DH has gone out and spend money he didn't have on something v expensive and she probably didn't know how much it cost, the extent to which he couldn't afford it, or the fact it was sitting on a credit card until it has presented a problem with paying the mortgage! If they shared their bank accounts and both acted responsibly with their money then this would never have happened. My DH and I discussed getting me an eternity ring last year but we had just bought a very expensive new house, and if I am going to get one I want a really special one, so I said that whilst it was a lovely idea, I would rather wait for a while until we had the spare cash.

I'm with Emma. All of our money is our money. One current account. One savings account. One ISA. One credit card in both of our names.

I truly think any other way spells disaster for a married couple with children.

Actually OP - if your earning potential is so much greater than his, would he be prepared to be a SAHD? If you can get another job at short notice in a recession, then that would seem the more sensible solution.

I really don't get waiting until the child has arrived to discuss the change in family finances though, weren't you worried when you were pregnant or were you always planning on going back to work after a couple of months?

thanks for the back up Tee. I always thought that wanting to share everything with someone was an important component part of wanting to be married to them!

He clearly thinks he is right, which in my opinion he is not. To go back to work with the wee one so young is hard for you and baby. I would only consider it if there were no other option. I went back when DS was 12 weeks, albeit for 2 days a week, so I do understand. Try and explain to him that you can't get this time back with baby and you need all cards on the table to have any chance of having an informed choice. Money is tricky, good luck and let me know how it goes.