to think that people shouldn't really have cats?

[gerontius]

Now, just to make this clear, I am not a cat-hater. I'm rather fond of them.

However, given that they crap in other people's gardens, is it not a massively anti-social to have one?

Although if you have the kind which uses its litter tray exclusively fair enough.

I've never bought a cat in my life! My cats have all been free and in need of a good home. Both cats for which I've been responsible as an adult have used litter trays, as it happens - occasionally the current one gets caught short and comes rushing in from the garden, hell for leather. But that's just his behaviour, nothing I've taught him and nothing I could do about it if he crapped outside.

The thing is, there is no point getting angry because people don't stop their cats pooing wherever the cat poos, any more than there is getting angry because foxes or hedgehogs or birds or rats or 1001 other things crap in your garden.

Yabu cats are awesome

Flower bed isn't covered in fox, hedgehog, or bird poo though...it's full of cat poo.

But it's OK I understand now...cats are thick and can't be trained, and their owners anti social neighbours who don't give a fuck where they shit. But its OK 'cos they have the law on their side.

How Annoying, you obviously hate cats and that's up to you, but some of us love them without necessarily being anti social psychopaths. Get better fencing for you garden if you find them so repulsive.

Or get your own cat and then other cats are less likely to use your garden as it will be your cat's territory.

See people say irreponsible / anti social

yet every time there has beena thread on this people have repeatedly said if they were approached wrt to their cat being an issue they would offer to clean up / provide cat detreents. I know I would.

I am not going to get rid or stop having cats- it's the only pet the elase allows and the only time my ds1 has shown any emptahy was for teh poor little abused mite we cared for. I am happy to take responsibility for them though.

As for the rpesumption only owners enjoy them- i think my elderly alone neighbour / toddlers lcoally and on school run / residents of national autistic society house opposite ahve proved that very wrong in my neighbourhood.

Jaggy, I wonder if you would show as much loathing towards the people (I use the term loosely) who beat the cat we had last at 5 weeks old to an inch of his life; gave him heart disorder, lost limbs, tail missing...? Or the previous owners of the cat we have now who was sealed in a box and left in a field, we only got him as the kids there boasted to mates about it who ended up passing him on to us.

Our cat is a huge joy to us- he's wellc ared for, elderly now so far from after any local animal population though I accept he would have once, I am a carer so am about if needs to come in, when we go away someone visits him and keeps him in so far from unsupervised.....

Oh and wrt to wildlife it's not all birds; mum's cat who ahd a bunch of kittens killed a nest of adders in the garden close to where my sister (aged about 2) was playing. Sad for adders but on balance probably rather a good thing for sister, no?

I don't hate cats, I hate their poo. It makes me feel sick. Planting plants should be enjoyable but it isn't when you come across cat poo after cat poo. I don't have a problem in the back garden, I have dogs. Out front is a different matter though. Or maybe I could just let the dogs roam out front, oh but no I can't because I'm responsible if they run out on road and cause an accident - as of course I should be.

And get better fencing? Excuse me? I had 6 foot fencing in last house, to keep dogs IN. I would still get the odd brave moggy in.

Why can't cat owners make their cat use a litter tray? If they live indoors they use a tray, is it so hard to get them to use one in your own garden?

It's definitely not the cats that I hate just the irresponsible owners. If you make an effort to take responsibility, that makes a big difference - a lot of people see a cat as a low effort pet though.

I'm not sure what you mean about me feeling loathing for the people who hurt the cats? I wouldn't want animals hurt, just some form of consequence for owners who don't even try and maybe a limit of some sort. For example - the post further up about someone in a flat with no garden and 2 cats - is that ok when they are guaranteed to be damaging gardens unless they are kept indoors.

We did approach our neighbours and ask if they could at least try to get the cats to use their litter tray instead of letting them straight out into our garden, we pretty much just got abuse. We had just seen one of their cats crapping on the path but they tried to claim that their cats weren't responsible.

I saw the OP as a theoretical question. Is it ok for people to own multiple cats and let them roam free with no legal requirement to care what they do?

waves to HowAnnoying

No one understands us

Unless you have encountered cat poo every day for years, while not woning a cat, I guess the frustration is hard to get?

Glad I don't have the problem now, I can still feel stressed about it now though.

Deep breaths....

there are legal requirements about providing care for animals but I would agree they are higely under enforced.

WRT to weasy animals- ha! Only in the same way as rabbits: until you get one. the injured kitten had to be cared for kangaroon style as you would with a premmie (I wore him inside my top for weeks!) just to enable him to survive, and Lily, our cat atm 9and indeed for the past deacde and a bit!) is ahrd work- he ahs to be fed at certain times or he's after you, take for a walk (don't ask!!!!!!! ) he accompanies me to school too then sits outside mewing loudly until I come out again (the kids love that, if tehre were any that didn't I'd shut him home of course)

They do require less 1-1 input than dogs of course, but there are certainly easier options out there.

(didn't mean to wave so boldly...

Edam, I unfairly 'pftt' you a while back on this thread without explaining my perspective better. I had had a wine!

I like cats and dogs and I do understand your point but I am in Australia and the problems of cat and dog attacks on native animals is a real problem. I'm talking koalas, possums, fairy penguins (that was a dog) and when we were little our cat killed a blue tongue lizard and all of it's babies - it was pregnant. Just advocating animal control - in a very contextual way.

I hate flowers. Flowers make me sneeze really badly. I wish irresponsible people wouldn't plant them in their gardens. Then they wouldn't also keep coming across cat poo while planting them.

Me! I like rats too

Possibly not wild rats in my house but apart from that they don't bother me.

I love rats too, any rodents, spider, creepy crawly: I am notorious in my family for getting wet so I can build a shelter for worms caught in storms, I am (and this is my twenties, rather sadly LOL)

Can't do snakes mind; scream if I so much see a picture of one!

Maybe that's why I have the cat thing- memories of sister (5 years younger so a littlie) playing in garden when I was at primary then screaming and the discovery that our cat had killed a nest of adders (I know it's sad for the adders but poisonous snakes and small kids are a no no- and cat did it presumably as she had kittens at the time)

Perhaps psychologically it's that simple, but I am someone who goes for a challenge and I remember taming quite a lot of feralsin my life- men and feline LOL- so it's likely that as well.

Jaggy & Howannoying - I must be explaining myself very badly but was just trying to say, cats are cats and behave as cats. Doesn't matter how responsible or irresponsible owners are. Fuming about cats pooing outside and blaming 'irresponsible' owners won't get you anywhere. Although I sympathise if you are having to deal with cat poo, there's not a lot that can be done to toilet train cats.

(Although obviously if owners don't have a litter tray that's not very nice if they can't be sure their cat uses its own garden exclusively. Mine uses his own litter tray and rushes home if he gets caught short when out and about BUT that's not something I've taught him or can guarantee. He's a cat. No-one can teach them anything!)

smug, don't worry about it. I guessed that you were in NZ or Australia. Just one of the many examples of human beings introducing non-native species that are NOT good for biodiversity. I blame our ancestors. Well, yours, actually, mine never went near what I'm sure they'd have called the Antipodes.

I just really don't get it...

Dogs natural behaviour is to roam for miles, hunt and kill prey, scavenge in bins/anywhere else for food. However, we have domesticated them and as such expect them to be kept under control and not be a nuisance to other people. This limits their natural behaviours, but they can still lead happy lives.

So, why shouldn't the situation be the same with cats? I have to put decent fencing up around my garden to ensure my dogs do not become a nuisance to others, why can't cat owners do the same? (I know some do) If my neighbours let their dog jump into my garden and kill me hens, she would be legally responsible for the damage the dog had caused, so why wouldn't a cat owner be the same?

There was also of course, the fairly recent incident where a cat was eaten by a large snake in the snake owners own garden and the cat owner went ballistic about it, yet it was their own choice to let their cat roam into other people's gardens. (I am not sure the snake owner was behaving entirely responsibly in this case, but nevertheless)

I have had dogs; you can train a dog not to roam and put up dog proof fences

Neither works for cats

And whilst I know it works for some I am unsure about indoor cats tbh

But you can put up cat proof fences. I know several people who have put up cat proof fencing precisely to keep their cats in their gardens. It works.

Acxtually many people can't: planning (most houses in our road listed, not ours mind!), rented (that's where we come in...)

I;ve never yet foudn a fence mine can't manage though; next foor has a nine foot wall and i've yet to know how he does it but he's up there sunbathing right now! Certainly our 6ft fence panels are no challenge; only thing that would stop him perhaps would be abrbed wirte etc and that would be directly dangerous

There are specific cat proof fences or fence 'toppers' you can buy that keep both cats in and other cats out.

here:

www.mycatfence.co.uk/choosing.php

failing that, why not have indoor cats? (that is what I do and they are perfectly happy. They do use the garden, but only under supervision).

If I rented a house with my dogs, I would have to choose one with suitable fencing to keep them in, or be able to alter the fencing. The same as if I bought a house, if I wasn't able to put up fencing suitable to keep my dogs in, then I'd have to accept I either wouldn't buy the house or I wouldn't be able to own a dog.

No-one wants to bother doing the above, as it is deemed acceptable by most of society to let cats roam free, just like it used to be acceptable to let dogs roam free.

I tkae in cats that have beens eriously injured or abused and have often been farm cats; for the cats I home it would be abusive I think.

Different perhaps if a cat is kept indoors since kittenhood.

Yes, mine have been kept indoors since kittenhood. I accept keeping them indoors if they have been used to being outside is far from ideal and probably not fair on the cat at all. Kept in a garden though?

I just feel keeping a cat relatively confined is better all round for all. No cat poo in anyone else's garden, not so much chance for cats to maim or kill (sometimes endangered) wildlife, no chance for the cat to catch FHIV or similar, be run over, be abused or harmed by thugs/cat haters/sick people, get chased and killed by a dog etc etc and if they have access to a garden they can still practice pretty much all natural behaviours.

However, it's just not something common in our culture/the UK, in other countries it is the norm. Plus, of course, it is now illegal to allow your dog to roam or cause an accident and you are finacially liable for damage it causes, the same does not apply to cats.

YANBU

I used to be a cat lover until I moved into the house I live in now. I seem to be surrounded by people who own cats that come into my garden to shit. I do not own a cat but have to put up with my kids stepping in fucking cat shit or getting it on their clothes,hands etc on a daily basis. I own a garden that my kids cant play in, I still have to cut the grass etc and do the upkeep on a garden that cant even be used from the amount of shit.I have had enough of the fucking things, I am sick of paying for gadgets to keep them out that do not work,so now i will be laying down poison...simples