to have shouted at my dad this evening?

[booyhoo]

i grew up with shouting as the norm. if you are angry, you shout, if you are giving someone a ticking off you shout. it wasn't the sort of shouting that you use to let someone no you are angry, it's the sort of shouting you cant help when you lose your temper. my dad was particularly bad. i dont shout at my children, i can be very firm but i dont shout. it isn't the norm in our house, i hate it and i get cross with OH when he shouts. (he had similar upbringing)

tonight i was at my parents' house for dinner. afterwards we were sitting in the living room and ds2 (14 months) toppled backwards and hit his head off the tv unit. my dad immediately shouted (i don't know to who exactly, he just shouted) and swore about the "f*cking child's head" and "get him away from there". i was on my feet and at ds as soon as it happened, the shouting continued even though i had lifted him. i immediately spun round and shouted back at my dad "who do you think you are shouting at?" (i am aware i was also shouting but that was the point, i needed to shout at him to make him realise what it felt like) he was a bit shocked and looked at me for a few seconds but then started shouting again saying "i was concerned for the child." (rubbish, the 'child' stopped crying as soon as i lifted him, he was fine, the shouting continued apportioning blame) i shouted back at him telling him there was absoloutely no need for him to shout, and who did he think he was shouting at, we are all adults and are capable of speaking to each other in a normal voice. my mum sat open mouthed and then said "well what are you shouting for?" to me. i explained, to which she replied, "i'm afraid to open my mouth sometimes." menaing she didn't like my assertive response. now i am 24 years old and havent lived at home for 5 years. i support myself and ask nothing of my parents. i have two dcs of my own. was i really being unreasonable to not want to be shouted at by my dad? it has been so much a habit in their lives that they see it as the normal way to communicate but i was really shocked. i am an adult, i wouldn't put up with anyone else shouting at me, why should i let my dad just because he is too set in his ways to learn a better way to talk to someone?

just to add, i have now decided to give my family a wide berth for a while.

yes, my dad goes off on ridiculous things, and he's getting worse as he gets older. several years ago, dsis & family were relocating back to the uk & stayed at my parents for a while. dsis found dad red faced, fists clenched & screaming swear words because ... her dd (age 14 months) had pulled a packet of raisins out the cupboard (my parents had not thought to make the kitchen more baby proof) and was playing with them on the floor.

dad has never hit us, or come close, but the emotional outpouring of rage is hard to deal with, and oppressive. our whole childhoods, we knew not to upset dad, so that he wouldn't lose his temper. eventually, as a teen, i went from being scared of him, to resenting, and despising him, because of this.

last time i was visiting, he got upset cos the car seats weren't arranged how he likes them, so he got confused about which one was which, and started up. he began just whiney & 'but that's not right', but he gets so caught up, he doesn't even hear the answer, so after telling him three times something he knew already, i just raised my voice, not even a proper shout. apparently, i was being childish, but he's allowed to be like that 'because he's my father' so i should respect him.

i know this and believe me i have been very upset about this since it happened. it would have been completely different if the dcs werent there. then it would only be adults who can chose to ignore him if they want but my dcs had no choice. they had to listen to it and because they aren't used to it they were upset. they are his only grandchildren and i do feel annoyed that i have had to take this decision but i can only make so many allowances and this is one time i need to think of myself and the dcs first.

kickass it all sounds so familiar.

i remember my dad deciding to build a dog kennel for our dogs once (he used to be a joiner so not a big task for him). he bought all the wood himself, decided on his own measurements. it was all completely his own task, no-one else involved. but when he actually got down to making it we stood at the kitchen window watching him having a complete meltdown because he had cut a piece of wood too short, and he had hammered a nail in wrong. it was all his own doing but to listen to him you would swear the wood and nails were playing a trick on him and shortening themselves. he was swearing and throwing his tools and shouting. in the end he abandoned it in bad temper. no-one's fault but his own but we were all walking on eggshells because he was in a foul mood and we were terrified of setting him off again. i dont want my dcs to ever feel like that.

and the trauma if his tomato plants didn't produce enough fruit! we used to wait in trepidation to see what mood he was in after going down the garden to check on the greenhouse.

i've seen him cry over his potatoes.

sadly, i seem to have inherited (or learnt) the ability to get irrationally upset over minor things, but dh tells me i'm being an idiot, i know i'm being an idiot, and just go off alone to give myself a good talking to. mine is mainly hormone driven, and i know when i will be like that, so kind of warn myself not to be stupid.

i feel a bit sorry for my dad, his parents didn't really want him, and made it quite obvious, so they packed him off to boarding school asap. still, he has never tried to control his outbursts & mum has always maintained that 'he's the head of the household' so we have to respect him & do what he wants.

my parents' best friends (and my godmother) told me once that they don't know how my mum managed to stay married to him.

same here, i dont know how or why my mum has stayed with my dad for this long. she is catholic and maintains that marriage is for life so i guess that is why but honestly she really takes so much crap from him. i certainly could not take it.

booyhoo, I understand what you are saying. It's not just the odd shout, it's the whole threat of something kicking off for no reason. My dad is very antisocial and paranoid, believe he has mental problems and drinking problems. My mum stayed with him because they were raised catholic in a small town in a different generation. But she was unhappy and ended up having a breakdown and depression. She died 2 yrs ago and she should have left him years ago. My siblings and I all tolerate my dad and help him out of duty - none of us like being with him or really love him. He is a sad, bitter old man - it's such a shame really.

scanty that is another thing. we all know that if my mums dies before him it will be up to me (my sister is as self-sufficient as him) to look after him. i will find that incredibly hard especially as he gets older and most likely more crabbid.