Trying to ween Lactose Intolerant 4 month old with no success - HELP

[mousemole]

DS2 is 4 months old and Lactose Intolerant. Was diagnosed very quickly and is on Neocate. He was 9lbs at birth and is now nearly 18lbs so his weight has not suffered as a result of this intolerance. However he is now back to waking lots in the night as the milk does not seem to satisfy him. So, I have tried a variety of the normal first weening foods with terrrible results.
Baby rice - chronic wind and runny bum for 3 days and wheezing.
Pear, B. Squash, Sweet Potato, Carrot have all had a smiliar effect - they produce loads of wind in him and he starts to wheeze/runny eyes etc.
Wht is this ? I am getting worried now. What is the most easily digestible thing I can try on him ? Anyone any experience of this ?
The HV was useless and I am now seeking to harness the power of mumsnetters !

Not an expert on this but would it not be worth leaving him for a couple of months and then trying again. If he has a lactose intolerance then is it possible that he may be sensitive to other food types. They recommend weaning at 6 months partly because of allergies. I think that there is a 4 month growth spurt which could be why he is waking alot in the night. Solids never helped either of mine sleep through the night My friend's little girl is on Neocate and she delayed weaning until about 8 or 9 months and her dd is a very healthy size.

I agree with jacanne mine has just had his 4 month spurt and the nightime waking lasted for about 2 weeks and he has now settled again. Why don't you try increasing the amount of milk you give in the day and leave the weaning till 6 months.One of the reasons for the change is that they have shown the gut is not mature enough at 4 months and I think your lo is showing signs of that

Just to echo what others have said, you are probably best waiting til 6mo (in line with official NHS guidelines) as before that their guts are not mature enough (hence increased likelihood of an allergic reaction to food).

Four months is a very typical time for babies to start waking more in the night (growth spurt plus development), best advice I can give is up the milk and hang in there, it should settle down again soon.

Truely- he is too young to wean. He need more milk. Particularly if he has intolerances you should wait til at least 6 months before "challenging" his system with other foods. They often start waking more at 4 monthish - I think it's a growth spurt thing. More Milk!

I took him to the GP and she has referred us to a dietician. I am inclined to wait longer as well. I guess size is no indicator of readiness to have food.

Actually mousemole, size IS an indicator of readiness for weaning. The new guidelines on weaning at 6m were only introduced in 2006, and many health professionals privately disagree with it. If he's 18lb at 4 months I think your instinct is right - you do need to wean him; as you say he's too big for milk to satisfy him. My DS was 17lb at 5 months but I waiting until nearly 6 months - and paid the price in sleepless nights and constant night feeding as the poor child was starving.

I haven't had similar problems to yours but firstly I would ask whether he's truly lactose intolerant, or whether he has a milk allergy. The two are very different - lactose int is an inability to process the milk sugars, whereas with milk allergy the problem is that the body perceives milk protein (casein) as an intruder, and mounts an immune response to it (see here for more info: food.gov.uk/eatwell/healthissues/foodintolerance/foodintolerancetypes/milkallergy/

How was your DS diagnosed - was he tested? If not I would go back to your GP and absolutely insist that he be tested. My GP was doubtful that my son was allergic but I insisted - turned out I was right. You could try cutting out all dairy from his diet, including dairy in your diet if you are BFing. Give him soy formula (Wysoy is what I use) - not goat or any other animal formula as it will have a similar, though milder effect to cows' milk. If after 3 weeks there's no change you can eliminate milk allergy as a cause. Bear in mind that not all health pro's are aware of milk allergy - they often assume that if there's a problem with milk it's lactose intolerance. Honestly, if we can be bothered to do the research, why can't they?

Apart from that I would gently introduce solids - one every couple of days. Try avoiding the following until 9 months:

Wheat (includes cous cous and bulghar wheat)
'Nightshade' vegetables: aubergine, peppers, tomato
Meat and chicken
Eggs

Only reason for this is that sometimes they can cause allergies. Don't worry too much if he has a little bit from time to time before he's 9 months, chances are it won't harm him.

Finally, weaning can take a few months to settle as his body is getting used to handling food.

I hope this is of some use and that things settle for you!

xx

But weight isn't an indication of gut maturity is it? My babies were both very big - I'm sure they hit 18 lbs well before 6 months (ds was 10.6 at birth!). The answer is to give more milk!

Again it's been said over and over spoonfuls of baby rice or carrot have less calories than milk.

I don't know anything about lactose intolerance, but wanted to add my experience regarding "early" weaning.
I started to wean my DD at 19 weeks due to night waking and seeming hungry. She just got really bad wind from it all and grizzled and grumbled and after a few nights of sleeping through started to wake again, so I stopped the weaning. So, I stopped giving her any foods, and at 20 weeks she went back to her normal (sleep all night) routine. I have been giving her bits of crushed food since the weekend, ie bits of veg to hold on to, and she is enjoying it, but not a lot goes in.

It does sound like your LO just might not be ready.

my DS's are totally intolerant to all cows milk stuff, DS1 also has very 'sensitive' system. I would go with the others who are saying try waiting a bit, but if it is a compromise you are after then introduce one food, just the small amount of baby rice made with warm water (check gluten free too) and give it to him on alternate days, stick to just this for a couple of weeks. Babies do not need variety, they need continuity to get used to things. A tiny bit of Banana and a bit of baby rice would prob be a next suggestion - again give it to him for a while, no variety.
my lot love potatoes. just spud. when tiny they had as much cooled boiled water in it as needed to make it the right texture.

wishing you luck

MrsThierryHenry, the "new guidelines on weaning" you refer to are the WHO recommendations - a consensus view of many experts. They're new only in the sense that the UK govt has been slow to adopt them for political reasons.

There is no conclusive evidence on what age is ideal to wean onto solids, mainly because of the ethical and methodological problems of designing this kind of research project. And of course it's likely that all babies are different in their readiness for solids.

What evidence there is suggests that milk is all a baby needs for the first 6 months. If hungry, they need more milk, not food.

There's a recent UK study which I will link to when I have a moment which found that for each month, babies who were exclusively milk fed had lower risk of hospitalisation for chest and gut infections than those on solids.

So, as I say, the evidence is patchy but it's all pointing in the same direction - babies are being weaned too soon. It's a strong cultural bias to wean a baby at 4months, not an instinct.

And I agree - the key issue is gut maturity and weight has no relevance to that.

mousemole, I think your DS2 is showing you that he's not ready.

In your shoes (I have an allergic dd1 by the way) I'd leave the solids, up the milk, and then when he's older do Baby Led Weaning, giving him a very free rein to decide how much and what he wants to eat. If you're lucky he'll show you what foods he feels comfortable eating and what foods make him feel poorly.

Baby Led Weaning info here

if you do go onto the BLW site have a look for Moomin's posts on allergies etc, she's very good.

mousemole, that website I linked to is aitch's and she knows everything about BLW

Please wait a couple of months before weaning him.

Neocate is formulated so children with plenty of allergies/health problems can have it as a sole from of nutrition, even for children way older than a year old (DS was prescribed Neocate being 3 yrs old). Have you consider giving him more neocate instead of introducing solids at this early age?

Thank you for all this information. Yes, he has true lactose intolerance and milk protein intolerance unfortunately. I am struggling to up the milk at feed time but am on average giving him one more feed a day as he can only go 3hrs between feeds now. What i dislike about this is that he has gone from 75th percentile ( which is what he was born in) to the the top of 91st percentile. As several people have commented, he is now a 'chubby' baby ! I also dislike giving him so much neocate as its not breast milk and I feel that organic food would be better than being stuffed full of highly processed milk.
Last night he woke at 11,1,4 and 6. I know I need to think of him, but he has never slept through and I am run down beyone belief through lack of sleep ( DH works away in week) which is why I am thinking weening is the way ahead.

Prosobee was good for my baby who is intolerant to protein in milk. Wysoy did not suit. ask your pharmacist if they can order some in. It comes in a small tin so its worth a trial. I would agree that that in my opinion breastmilk is probably best at this stage. Could he be teething - hence frequent wakenings?

can you not go 'back' to breastfeeding?

can you access a milk bank at local hospital?

babies can be lactose in tolerant to Cowes Milk and rarely intolerant to mother's milk. mother's milk also helps resist allergies and builds immune system.

out of the options of Cowes Milk highly processed and 'normal' food, i would pick cowes milk everytime. 'normal' even organic food won't help with development or stamina.

you can stimulate your lactating response and express, if this helps. speak to a local BF councillor and they can provide more info.

I am well aware of the benefits of breast feeding - BF DS1 for 9 months. However breast milk is 10% lactose and made my DS2 into a human ball of gas. He was in searing agony and was heart breaking to observe. It led to his stools being full of blood and mucus. A true lactose intolerance is a very serious issue.Switchingh to neocate immediately solved this problem.

poor baby mouse and poor you!
it really sounds like you need some pro advice, can you request an urgent appointment with a paediatric dietitian? we got a 'normal' (ie not urgent) appointment through in around three weeks, don't know whether that is the norm.

i can't figure out how to do a link to the goats milk formula, but i have found the thread, it was from Beenleigh and was posted on 19th october 07 at 11pm+. Formula called 'Nanny'. get on to the search message facility and you should get it without too much bother.

Hi you may have seen this on post i wrote couple of months ago my lad is milk and soya protein intolorent, but the only food we found suitable for weaning was rusks! We did give him baby rice first 2 days and god it was horrendous. Suffered really bad with wind, stomach cramp etc. Maybe worth a try? Later we moved to the hip sweetcorn and carott an progressed from there.

good one bekkaboo we used tons of rusks too. how could i forget that?

poor little baby mouse

mousemole, are you sure his night waking is a feeding problem and not a sleep problem?

Point taken re WHO recommendations on weaning, however nonetheless some medics (such as my very good GP, who's also a father of 3) do disagree with blanket rules for weaning. As you say, welliemum, there is no conclusive evidence.

Mousemole, the best advice here comes I think from gigglewitch on getting professional advice. Your head must be exploding with info, you poor thing!

Do bear in mind if you're trying nanny goat formula milk that your DH may react in a similar way as he did to cows' milk. Also if he reacted to your breast milk it could have been a reaction to dairy in your own diet - ask a BF counsellor, as it's highly unlikely that a baby would react to it's own mother's milk unless she'd eaten something without realising her baby's system didn't like it.

You could also try talking to a nutritionist about which foods (in your diet) can cause a reaction.

One more thing - many babies chub out in the months before crawling (as you prob know from your DS1) and then slim down once they become active. As long as he's thriving in all other areas you probably shouldn't worry too much about his size at this stage.

Good luck!