Alternatives to AS

[Newnameforthisonetoo]

A new low today - DW drinking in secret, erratic behaviour and our small DCs not fully safe in her care. Denies drinking when I ask her about it, then comes up with a lie about being on meds, then minimises, then repeatedly ignores my questions / tries to pretend like everything is normal, then turns on me saying that I “knew who I married” and that I’m being controlling etc etc. I’m not ready for divorce and do believe that we can get through this but I need her to be on board. I’ve repeatedly asked we run a “dry” house (I am prepared to forgo my own minimal drinking that I enjoy for this), whereby people can pop to the pub if they want a drink. This is met with derision and “that doesn’t work for me”. It’s not an unreasonable ask though surely? I’m not even saying she can’t drink, just not in the home…. Anyway, she has also, at times, expressed a readiness to start some sort of programme. Maybe not AA with the 12 steps, but some other alternative? I’ve heard of SMART and MM - does anyone have any experience with them?

That should be “alternatives to AA” !

I understand that you don't want to divorce right now, but it doesn't sound like your children are safe. If she won't stay sober in the house for them when it sounds like she's in sole care then you've got a much bigger problem than trying to get her to agree to accept help. Can anyone else help care for them?

She doesn’t think her level of drinking is a problem to keep the children safe and to be fair they’ve been fine so far, including when she and I have both been drunk, eg family BBQs. Yes I appreciate how this sounds and I have massively cut down and am very ready to stop drinking around them completely. She’s on weight loss injections and gets very drunk very quickly but is in denial that “one drink” (apparently) could make her drunk. She’s also in denial that two pints could make her need a nap in the afternoon and irritable because apparently “nobody gets a hangover from 2 pints”. I could go on… the latest crisis - today - was completely random drinking in secret with no social element to it, on a drizzly Monday afternoon. With the regrets that will come tomorrow, I do believe that she may be ready to sign up to professional support, so want to make sure that happens

If you cross the road with your eyes closed you'll still be fine until a car hits you - it doesn't make it a safe choice. I don't know what the option is, but her level of addiction coupled with the denial means I wouldn't be able to leave my children with her, even if that meant taking time off work.

I am so sorry but you can’t make sure anything happens. She has to get there herself. She is the only one who can make it happen.

my ex drank. It was generally always evenings / way home from work. The day I left was the day I came
home from work to find he had had a drink while cooking them tea. That crossed a line - it showed the need for alcohol override the children and I didn’t feel he would keep them safe.

I have questions. Is she working or with the children all day? Are you out of the home working during the day? Is she likely to be driving while drinking? How old are your children?

You really must not minimise the risks to your children. This could escalate very fast and it will just take your DW to be too drunk at take her eye off the ball for your children to be injured in some way. Then social services will be at your door. I say that as a retired social worker who has knocked at many such doors. You think it will be fine until it isn't. Your job is to safeguard your children. Your DW will only stop drinking when she is ready and this often involves a crisis point. You can't force her into making these decisions. It sounds like she is in complete denial. Please take steps to protect your children.

I think you’re all right about her not being ready. This morning she was just defensive. She’s again made it very clear that she’d rather split up than change her drinking habits. I will persevere with the dry house rule nevertheless.
As for leaving her - I’m not ready yet and I do think that with some controls and rules about not drinking in the house or around the children, it can be managed. She is rarely extremely drunk, but drinking every day and “functional”. She’s a SAHM, doesn’t drive, DCs are toddlers and in nursery half of every weekday.

You can have the controls and rules you want but it won't make her stop unless she wants to. Is she possibly bored of her SAHM life? Would she be happier working? Does she have friends? I'm wondering if she is using alcohol as a crutch to combat loneliness.

Would you consider Al Anon? It’s useful for partners.

Why on earth do you sound so blasé about your small children being in the care of your active addict wife?!

She has loads of friends and a large family. Not lonely but bored of the drudgery of looking after the DCs. But we do have visitors a few times a week. She also has one overnight weekend day away in closest city every month for her “me time”, plus the occasional night out in our town. I work FT in a demanding job but do loads (and I mean loads) for house and kids. Her working doesn’t make financial sense. If she had more free time she’d just drink more! As it is, every visitor / play date is an excuse to drink already

Because it’s mostly functional drinking. The kind of socially acceptable middle class drinking that goes on in millions of homes in this country. A few drinks with lunch/dinner at a restaurant, a bottle of wine shared over dinner, a bottle of fizz when some mum friends come round for a playdate. She’s not like rolling around in her own vomit while caring for them or drink-driving.

I’ve thought about this, but my concern is that it will take time away from the children and housework and it’s her that needs to change, not me, so why should it be me to take the time out from family needs?

She’s again made it very clear that she’d rather split up than change her drinking habits.

I think you need to sit and let the reality of that sentiment sink in. You are less important and more disposable to her than her next drink is.

I've been where you are. I, too, tried setting what seemed to me sensible limits on her drinking. Every time she blew them off and lied about it. But all the time I was in problem-solving mode I was concentrating on how to fix her and so get me/her/us to some future point of happiness. And while I was focussed on how much better the future could be, I was overlooking just how bad the present was. I was overlooking just how damaging it was that given the choice between me and another bottle of Sauvignon Blanc, she was choosing the wine.

I also have to say that I, too, was puzzled how on some occasions she seemed to get drunk surprisingly quickly after I saw her only having one or two glasses of wine. I felt like a prize chump when I realised that those were the occasions she'd sunk half a bottle of vodka in secret before she let me see her have a glass of wine.

It's very easy to look at someone with an alcohol problem and think "If only you stopped drinking so much, your life would be so much better!" and so try to find ways to engineer that. The reality is that they simply don't have to agree with you. You have neither the legal nor moral right to insist that someone else lives their life the way you think they should. And, short of locking her in a room for the rest of her life, you can't stop them drinking. That is outside of your control. All that is in your control is whether your relationship as it is today, rather than your hopes of where it could be in the future, is good enough.

I didn't love Al Anon, but found SMART family and friends better. But for me the best is Adult Children of Alcoholics because it is my mum. It's not a punishment for you. It is to give you support, give you help on how to cope with being married to an alcoholic.

The glasses of wine on play dates etc, is not something I have experienced with 2 toddlers.

If she is trying to lose weight this might hit home -

Glass of wine mid day with friend + 1/2 bottle of wine at dinner + G&T on the couch in the evening = 600 calories

Put that over a month she will be struggling to lose weight.

What your children unfortunately are learning though is that mummy cannot be relied upon. Because sometimes she is happy mummy, then sometimes without understanding why she is cross. They will learn they need to assess her before they can go to her.

The biggest issue by far though is the secret drinking. Because what you saw will only be a tiny part of it.

This sounds like it will all keep escalating until she faces some actual consequences.

I am a mum of a 3yr old and 1 yr old. They are exhausting, demanding. There is a real loss of 'self'. But drinking will not fix that. In fact it will make it worse. I work 3 days per week, DH is a farmer so works a lot. I do most of the house work and all the cooking. Which I think is fair since I am at home more.

@HowardTJMoon I am not for one second saying that hearing that would not cause a huge amount of hurt. I had similar flights with my mum.

But one thing I have learnt over the last 7 years. I don't think most alcoholics actually fully mean things like that, or think that their loved ones are disposable. That doesn't reduce the pain of hearing it, or the impact.

Statements like that often come from fear and denial rather than a true belief that alcohol matters more than the person they love. Giving up alcohol can feel impossible to them, so they cling to the idea that they can control it or balance both. Which of course they can't

So they can either dig in their heels that they are in full control of their lives/ drinking and stick to that line. Or hopefully start to see sense.

It's sort of like a child when they react badly to something that they want, but that needs to be taken away.

Look I know it’s a problem, hence starting this post. I’ve been lied to, gaslit for years about the drinking. I’ve begged and I’ve threatened and ultimately nothing works. At this point I’m trying to do damage limitation- a rule of no drinking in the house or around the children, to shield us from some of the immediate impact and to avoid DCs growing up thinking that this level of drinking is normal. I know this is not unreasonable. Jumping to me quitting work or divorce is not practical and will potentially expose DCs to it more. I want to push for therapy, just not sure if AA is that suitable or if alternatives exist

This hit hard, thank you. I want to get our current relationship to a position where it’s tenable. I know I have no ability or right stop the drinking generally speaking but I strongly believe that can I insist on no drinking in my house / around my children.

@pontipinemum the realisation that I was more disposable to her than alcohol was definitely hurtful but it was also one of the pivotal points in our relationship. It helped me to realise that if I wanted things to change then I had to be the one to make those changes, rather than trying to get her to change.

It took about ten years for her to go from capable, functional, fun-loving, wine-o-clock-enthusiast middle-class mum of two young DCs, to dead. Along the way her alcoholism cost her our relationship, several subsequent relationships, most of her friendships, multiple jobs, regular contact with our DCs, her driving license, her health, and ultimately her life.

That she chose alcohol over me was irrelevant as her drinking wasn't anything to do with me. What matters is that she chose alcohol over herself.

As well as SMART and AA, Soberistas is one I have seen mentioned a fair bit. She might also get on better with one-to-one therapy . Unfortunately though, as you know, she needs to want to change before any of these options become viable and nothing you have written here indicates that it the case yet. She probably will get there but the question is when and the concern is what needs to happen before she reaches that conclusion? What gets thrown under the bus before she decides the drink is not worth it? Her marriage, her relationship with her kids? Her health? Alcoholism is a broad spectrum and many people spend years not physically addicted but with a deeply unhealthy relationship with alcohol.

I don't know what to suggest because I have been where you are (with my Father) and I never managed to get him to stop drinking. He drank himself to death.

I know it's hard to separate things but how is your relationship in general?

@HowardTJMoon "What matters is that she chose alcohol over herself."

This is so true - it's self harm at it's very core.

Can't believe no-one has mentioned The Sinclair Method to you - it's about using Naltrexone before drinking to retrain your dopamine system. Google some of the excellent first person accounts that have been published recently and have a read. It is best suited to middle class problem drinkers who are still functional (ie haven't hit rock bottom being a bum on the streets) for whom the idea of AA is not appealing.

Please check it out - it could be a good option for your wife.

There's a Naltrexone thread on MN actually, could be worth a read OP. It might appeal to her because she can still drink but the drugs will make her drink less -

www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/5396751-anyone-on-or-starting-a-naltrexone-journey

Thank you, will check out Naltrexone. I immediately have my doubts though. When she first started MJ, she had the well-known side effect of not really wanting to drink any more (I thought it was magic!), but she literally seemed to just “power through” it and drank anyway. It’s like she can’t replace the physical act of drinking alcohol. Adding more meds to the mix probably won’t help