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Adoption

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Adopting with a sex offender

51 replies

handp · 31/05/2023 17:10

My partner is about to be sentenced for something that happened. He was in a group where someone sent indecent images to everyone and they automatically saved onto his phone, he did not notice this as lots of other images were sent at the same time and didn't know about their existence until the police turned up. He still technically committed an offence because they were saved to his phone and there is no way of proving that he didn't see them. (please don't give me advice on whether to believe him, I do and there is no reason not too.) We have a 2 month old daughter but I want to adopt/foster in the future. He will be on the register for probably 5 years.

There is a blanket ban on all sex offenders adopting or fostering, however I can see that many people have challenged this, because you can be put on the register for many things such as public urination. My question is, would we even be allowed to apply in the future, and would they look at the facts of his case? He has a young brother and lives with our daughter and social services have assessed and said there is no risk there, would this be taken into account or would we have to go to court like others.

OP posts:
wildeststorm · 31/05/2023 19:07

I highly doubt you would ever be considered.

wildeststorm · 31/05/2023 19:08

And what you need to remember is that children in the care system may have already been let down through abuse/violence/neglect and sexual abuse already. Social services would be mad to consider anybody who has been convicted of anything like that.

Silverlodge · 31/05/2023 19:48

I've name changed for this and while I often read here I rarely post. This is not my usual style but:

My child had indecent images taken of them. The thought of the things that happened to them haunt me. The thought of all the people who have seen the videos- people birthparents sent them to, police, barristers, and even worse the random people on the internet sickens me. The idea of social care placing a highly vulnerable chid with someone who has been convicted of a crime of this nature and put on the sex offenders register is rightly ludicrous.

Equally think if you were a birth mum whose child was removed, think of your own baby girl- say things start to go wrong for a host of reasons in your life, you're struggling to cope, things get worse and your child is at risk and so is removed into care, you struggle to turn things around and things are gettig worse still, then it's decided at court your child will be adopted. You have effectively no say in who your child's new parents are, you are stripped of your parental rights and you will not see them again for the rest of their childhood, how would you feel about their new dad being someone who spent five years on the sex offenders register?

ohmustyou · 31/05/2023 20:00

No. Unless you immediately leave him to safeguard your daughter, do not minimise what he has done, and then go on to adopt/foster as a single parent.

tonyhawks23 · 31/05/2023 20:05

Yes I think that would quite rightly be a definite no for adopting.

Spambod · 31/05/2023 21:55

Op I am a total technophobe and even I know that if I open a picture on WhatsApp it saves to my phone. He saved it to his phone and kept it. He knows people who distribute abuse. Open your eyes.

LadyWiddiothethird · 31/05/2023 21:57

Not a chance you will be able to adopt.

usererror99 · 01/06/2023 07:01

Won't touch him with a barge pole and rightly so

And it will also cause issues if you have more children of your own if it already hasn't with having a 4 month old daughter and you deciding to believe him

Jellycatspyjamas · 01/06/2023 13:45

I can’t see him being approved I’m afraid, the prosecution threshold for indecent images is pretty high so if he’s been convicted and registered there will have been compelling evidence against him. If I remember rightly it’s a Schedule 1 offence which would automatically bar him from working with children and would include not being able to foster or adopt.

handp · 01/06/2023 14:31

I didn't want any comments about his case but I have done so I feel like I need to explain. To be charged you have to know you've been sent images, but you don't have to know the content of the images. It was an image dump from someone who he did not know and alongside many other things (thousands) that were sent to him so got lost among photos on his phone. There is a chance he could have been found not guilty but he took the guilty plea because we cannot afford to take it to the crown court.

OP posts:
handp · 01/06/2023 14:39

The threshold isn't extremely high for this type of case, rightfully so because you can't take chances with potential sex offenders, I'm a third year in law school.

People have taken simular things to court because they think it should be case by case and there's many people fighting for the law to be overturned.

However as it stands I have the decision to make whether I stay, and give up my dream of fostering or never let my daughter see her (amazing) father again, something that she may well resent me for when she grows up.

(I can't have another child naturally either)

OP posts:
Jellycatspyjamas · 01/06/2023 14:40

I hope he took good legal advice about the life long impact of being convicted/pleading guilty to a Schedule 1 offence. Even after he is removed from the Sex Offenders register, the offence will remain on his record which will impact career decisions, things like volunteering and of course whether you can adopt.

You could speak to the Lucy Faithfull Foundation who offers advice to families of sex offenders, they’re very good and understand the complexities of the law in this area.

Jellycatspyjamas · 01/06/2023 14:47

The threshold isn't extremely high for this type of case, rightfully so because you can't take chances with potential sex offenders, I'm a third year in law school.

The threshold for conviction is pretty high, there’s about a 40-50% conviction rate, so half the people charged aren’t convicted - - which suggests a high threshold given the presence of the images on their device for them to be charged in the first place.

It’s an awful situation to be in and I can imagine you’ve all sorts of thoughts and feelings about him and your future, adoption is one of those things that won’t be open to him now.

PinkMimosa · 01/06/2023 19:38

I've named changed for this as it is extremely outing.

We've had a very similar situation in the family recently, thankfully not my DH.

As others have said, I hope he took legal advice before pleading guilty as this will stay with him forever, as it should, and he won't be able to foster or adopt and neither will you if you stay with him.

I'd urge you though to start another thread on whether to stay with him.

Like others have said, you'd have to be literally brain dead not to know that images from groups like this get saved.

Plus he has a baby girl, there's no way that he's not looking at the photos on his phone regularly, as all new parents do.

Even if you do believe what he says, I'd be really uncomfortable about him being in a group with someone who would do that.

My lovely family member decided that she didn't want to be married to Sex Offender funnily enough and started Divorce proceedings straightaway.

The good news is that there's now no fault Divorce, the bad news is that you have to wait 20 weeks to get your Conditional Order (Decree Nisi) and you don't get it earlier even if your "D"H has been looking at these abhorrent images.

MamaBear2210T · 01/06/2023 19:52

Surprised you haven't had social services safeguarding your child.

PinkMimosa · 01/06/2023 20:58

MamaBear2210T · 01/06/2023 19:52

Surprised you haven't had social services safeguarding your child.

I’m surprised by that too. The ex family member who was arrested has bail conditions to live somewhere else and to not see the DC.

handp · 01/06/2023 21:16

As I said social services have assessed there to be no risk

OP posts:
Jellycatspyjamas · 01/06/2023 22:29

The ex family member who was arrested has bail conditions to live somewhere else and to not see the DC.

Bail conditions are set pre-trial and are usually on the cautious side because the details of the case aren’t proven in court and investigations are ongoing. Once there’s been a trial and conviction an assessment is made on the facts of the case as fully known.
Bail conditions don’t extend past conviction - it’s not unusual for the terms of license to be less stringent than bail conditions. Sex offences are managed under MAPPA processes which will fully risk asses. Depending on the circumstances it’s possible social services would deem the husband not to pose a risk, we don’t know the circumstances (and I’m not asking) and aren’t party to the risk assessment so commenting on that isn’t necessarily helpful.

Silverlodge · 01/06/2023 22:54

Jellycatspyjamas has given you some thoughtful advice, to be honest I feel very angry at your posts but also recognise that you never asked to be in this situation and it must be awful for you. I'm not sure if it's the right thing for me to be responding but I truly hope the below is helpful to you.

What are your thoughts about the situation? I am guessing from what you've said that you feel there shouldn't be a blanket ban for sex offenders but people should apply and be considered on an individual bases and their circumstances discussed- is that fair to say? However you also said above that 'you can't take chances with potential sex offenders', which I agree with, except your partner isn't a potential sex offender, he is an actual sex offender. I appreciate what you've said above and that he states he didn't actively seek the material (and as per your request I'm not giving my own personal opinion on this) but the reality is he is a sex offender and you can't take chances with him.

I wrote in my above post about my own thoughts which I stand by and I would urge you to spend some time reflecting on them.

I think you might currently be seeing the situation primarily from your own perspective as someone who loves their partner and wants to stay with them, and also who is looking at their future hope of adopting/fostering being put in danger, however adopters are not at the centre of adoption and it may be helpful to think of yours and your partners situation from different perspectives:

  • birth parent. If your baby daughter was removed from your care and placed for adoption what would you say if they were placed with a sex offender (and their partner who backs them)?
  • professionals and other adults in the process. The child's social worker, the family finding social worker, your own adoption social worker, the panel members who approve adopters, the panel members who approve the match to a specific child, and an agency to accept you in the first place. All these people must be satisfied your partner and you are safe to bring up and be ultimately responsible for an exceptionally vulnerable child. What do you think these people might say in response to a sex offender wanting to adopt?
  • The child. This is the most important thing, many of our children have been let down to a degree it's hard to imagine, they have suffered huge levels of trauma and loss. How would you respond to a child (once they are older perhaps and are asking questions about their life) who questions why they were removed from their birth family who couldn't keep them safe and was then placed with a sex offender?

Ultimately I would repeat what others are saying, you would not and should not be considered for adopting or fostering unless you were to end things now, put distance between you and disavow his behaviour.

TallerSally · 02/06/2023 20:06

OP, I think you’re now clear that your convicted sex-offender partner has zero chance of ever becoming an adoptive or foster parent, and neither will you if you remain with him.

The further - no doubt disappointing - thing, for my 2 cents worth, is you’re unlikely to ever become an adoptive or foster parent, even if you leave him. If this didn’t jump out from reading between the lines of previous posts, I’d like to propose five reasons why in crystal-clear terms, as I’m finding what you’re suggesting really quite disturbing from a child safeguarding point of view.

Firstly, as others have posted, you appear to be in denial about the risks your convicted sex-offender partner poses to both an adoptive child and your birth child. Children’s services deal with mums in denial day in, day out. Parents typically downplay and minimise their partners abusive, addictive or otherwise harmful behaviours, even when there’s a conviction and not just an allegation, with endless rebuttals about how it was just the one time and it was someone else’s fault. The term child safeguarding professionals use is “lacking insight”. Parents in denial pose a risk to their own children, and social workers take children into care from such families on a weekly basis.

You know about one incident for which your partner was convicted. Can you be 100% certain there aren’t more, for which he just wasn’t caught? Sex offenders are known to be experts at hiding in plain sight, masquerading as perfect parents even to their trusting partners. Further, when their offenses go undetected they are more likely to escalate. Even more so when they’re connected to a network of other sex-offending buddies. The odds are that your partner poses far more risk than you appear to accept. Fortunately for vulnerable kids, adoption safeguarding professionals tend to be aware of this denying mindset, which is why you and your convicted criminal partner are unlikely to get past the initial adoption interview (if that).

The second reason I believe you’re unlikely to ever become an adoptive mother, even as a single mum, stems from sharing a child with a convicted sex offender. Even if you leave him, he remains the father of your child and the Family Court can grant him shared care of your joint daughter, putting any child you adopt at risk of coming into contact with him. At that point he could be a vindictive ex hellbent on getting back at you… including by harming your adoptive child. I have witnessed adoption panel members recoil in horror at the thought of a far less risky situation than what you are proposing.

My third point relates to child welfare assessments, and you mentioning that your partner was assessed to be low or no risk by Children Services. I am assuming that this was for your daughter, not a prospective adoptee. In their assessment they likely weighed up the risks of her growing up with no contact with her biological father versus the risks of maintaining contact. An assessment for a vulnerable adoptee would be a whole different kettle of fish. Who’s to say that your sex-offending partner would also be considered low risk for a child he is not biologically related to? One who may display sexualised behaviours at a young age as a result of trauma she has experienced? As other posters have eloquently highlighted, most adoptive children in the UK are removed from high-risk families, sometimes involving sex offenders, and the idea of placing them in a family with a convicted sex offender is a complete nonstarter. And again, your apparent lack of insight into this could preclude you from being considered a suitable adoptive parent.

Let’s say you overcome the above and succeed in finding an agency that approved you, your next challenge will be matching. You’ve heard the mantra that matching is about finding a family for a vulnerable adoptee, not finding children for adopters, so you would be competing with other prospective adopters. Look at the recent numbers: there are a lot more approved adopters (2240 in 2022) than there are children ready to be adopted (1880 in 2022), a mismatch exacerbated by growing legal challenges to adoption, and special guardianships (SGOs). Why would a family-finding social worker and a vulnerable child’s social worker, adoption panel, SRO, CAFCASS guardian and other safeguarding professionals choose you over other, likely safer and less problematic, prospective adopters? And don’t bother contemplating overseas adoption, you still need to be approved in the UK and I don’t see IAC or any other similar agency approving the partner or co-parent of a convicted sex offender anytime soon.

So let’s say all of us here are wrong, you overcome all the above and are now at placement stage with a UK adoption. My final point ties into what several PPs said about how birth parents might feel about their child being placed with a sex offender or their co-parenting ex-partner. It’s not just about how the birth parents might feel, it’s about what they’ll do, i.e. the applications they will make to the Family Court to revoke the placement order and for “leave to oppose” the making of the adoption order. Normally birth parents have very little chance of obtaining leave to oppose, and even less chance of successfully opposing. But what if the prospective adopter was a convicted sex offender, or in a co-parenting relationship with one? Which Family Court judge do you think will be willing to take that risk? And even if you find one that is, which High Court or Court of Appeal judge would take the risk when the birth parents inevitably appeal, journalists and hysterical media coverage in tow?

Forget adoption, OP, it’s not for everyone. And I can only empathise with how sad this must feel to you, you really are in an unfortunate situation. Hopefully focusing your attention to safeguarding your daughter as she grows up could prove a fulfilling enough parenting experience? And if you’d prefer to hear all this from a professional, perhaps you could seek a consultation with an organisation such as PAC-UK?

Sorry everyone for the long post, hopefully someone thinking about posting “Adopting with a serial killer (who was only a serial killer just the one time and it wasn’t his fault)“ might read this post and think twice…

Peace.

ababababa · 03/06/2023 10:12

Adopter here. I have NC. Unfortunately any kind of criminal record on relation to sexual or cruelty offences involving children is an automatic blanket "you will not be considered". It is clearly written in numerous LA and Voluntary Agencies Adoption webpages.

Sorry.

handp · 03/06/2023 13:28

I've sought advice and yes I would be able to adopt on my own. My partner is prepared to be completly out of lives for me to be able to do this.

Thanks for your input but I'm not in denial. If I do decide to stay with him it will be an informed decision that I make with the help of social workers, police and family which I have already set up meetings for. I know the mentality on this website is to write off anything easy or normal but innocent people do get in situations like this. If I do stay with him for at least 5 years every online activity would be overseen by me and the police, he wouldn't be allowed unsupervised access to our daughter and after that statistically 10% reoffend. My daughter would be made aware and I would have open communication with her about it.

As I said I'm a law student, I've seen this many times, people commit offences without being aware very often and that's one of the reasons why the register is so large now. For example I was looking through pictures a few days ago and in between the thousands of my daughter there was a batman shaped toilet a friend had sent to me and I wasn't aware of. I'm afraid you are in denial that this could literally happen to anyone and it often depends on the judge whether it goes through to conviction or caution. There are sick sick people out there that literally do this to get people into trouble.

Having said this I am fully aware I can never be 100% sure if he never saw the image, however if I decide to keep our family together I will concider all the factors. He is an absolutely incredible father and partner and if I leave I would have to know that I've taken that away from my daughter, and explain to her (because I wouldn't lie) that he was amazing with her and I do believe he's innocent and not a risk.

I'd like to add I can see adoption is not an option if I'm with him and I can see why, however I've looked at cases where it has been overruled that's why I was asking, for everyone to assume I'm in denial and stupid and that it's rediculous for me to ask this really says something about this site. Maybe it can be a point of reflection to everyone that assumed I know absolutely nothing about vulnerable children and the system that I was one of those kids taken away and put in the system, abused and then rehomed, and now working in family law. Not everyone's as dumb as they sound and this has been a lesson for me too that if someone's in a difficult yet controversial situation I'll always be non judgemental and conciderate to what they're going through.

OP posts:
Kath85 · 03/06/2023 13:37

No one is calling you dumb, however, having experience of the care system also doesn’t mean you are not letting your feelings for your partner cloud your judgement. Adoption is not on the cards for your partner and rightly so. You have stated if you decide to adopt in the future then your partner would completely step aside which would mean no contact with your birth child. If you are so certain of your partners innocence why is this something you would entertain?

wildeststorm · 03/06/2023 14:14

I'd like to add I can see adoption is not an option if I'm with him and I can see why, however I've looked at cases where it has been overruled that's why I was asking, for everyone to assume I'm in denial and stupid and that it's rediculous for me to ask this really says something about this site.

If you have more legal knowledge than us then why bother post and ask advice? Not many people choose to stay with a sex offender and then try to adopt - that's a very niche thing you are asking.

You've decided to stay with him and believe him, and seem to understand that you may have a fight on your hands. Good luck to you - you've clearly studied these kinds of cases more than most.

febrezeme · 03/06/2023 14:27

He is an absolutely incredible father and partner

And yet he is fully prepared to walk away from his child so you can adopt 🤔