Misconceptions about adoption- help me clear them up

[Nc4post99]

Hi all,

I’m in my early 30s and pregnant with dc 2. DH and I strongly feel that for numerous reasons (not financial or fertility related more environmental and social), dc2 will be our last biological child but that we’d love to adopt a child and give them the life they truly deserve. This is obviously quite a few years away (at least 5) but we’ve always been vocal about our intent as we are passionate about it. Lately however it’s been met with sneers and skepticism as to whether we’d be allowed to from family and a few friends.

I’ll list their reasons below:

1. We would have 2 (younger) biological children- apparently that doesn’t look good from an adoption point of view. We’ve had a few comments on this one, they’d know they aren’t blood family and wouldn’t get on/ would resent each other. Adoptive sibling might hurt one of dc etc…
2. we both work full time (same reason as above) but we both would get adoptive/ parental leave which is the same as mat/ pat leave?
3. house size, we currently have a 4 bed home but it’s likely we’d upsize in the future to 4 bed+office anyway so this seems moot to me.
4. DH and I are an interracial couple (he is south asian and I’m white european) I’ve been told that they’d only place children of this exact mix with us, whereas I was under the impression that used to be the case but isn’t anymore. I understand this to an extent, a child being raised In their own culture, especially if it’s an older child.
5. we are Muslim, we are progressive but still observant. I’ve heard this would be a big problem, especially for younger children. That they wouldn’t place a child born to non Muslim biological parents with us.

Id really appreciate any sort of clarity on or around some of these points, if they are true or other wise? Xx

@Jellycatspyjamas I'll telling you a fact, that is the reason my brothers and sisters have had troubles. Just because it's not your experience doesn't mean it didn't happen so no it's not damaging to relay that information as another point of view, which I think is allowed

I haven’t said you’re not allowed to present another view, so I don’t know why you’re getting stroppy with me? Nor did I say you sharing your experience was damaging. I said that the assumption that not remembering their birth family meant newborns would have no issues post adoption was potentially damaging, because it sets parents up to fail and can block much needed support further down the line if people disregard the child’s adoption experience as being relevant or impacting them in some way.

I glad you’ve had such a positive experience - many many adopted children do regardless of age.

In older children their needs are often more known, but not necessarily more complex, we have a much better awareness of the impact of developmental trauma from pre-birth onwards, it would be ridiculous to ignore that extensive body of research in favour of anectdata.

I would be concerned about the 'sneering' and negativity from family and friends as they will be play a huge part in your assessment process including providing face to face references to meet your SW and discuss why they think adoption is right for you and your family. They need to be fully on board, as your support network will be scrutinised by the Adoption Panel.

I know people who have adopted and also have bio children, it is not frowned upon by social services at all, in fact you are a mum with a wealth of parenting experience so that will be seen as a positive. However you bio children will be part of the assessment process so they will contact nursery / school for references etc.. and also speak to your children about their feelings regarding a new sibling. Its very much a family approach so you all need to be in it together 100%

We adopted with 2 young bio children and are in the process for a second adoption now. They won't turn you away based on already having children, they told us it was a bonus as we were 'experienced parents'. The down side was the age range of children we could adopt was limited because our youngest was 2 years old for most of the process, and there weren't many babies in the LA at the time.

Lots of friends say to us about our daughter that it's good she won't remember anything or be affected because she was put in foster care at birth. It can be a bit infuriating!

@Widgets

I would be concerned about the 'sneering' and negativity from family and friends as they will be play a huge part in your assessment process including providing face to face references to meet your SW and discuss why they think adoption is right for you and your family. They need to be fully on board, as your support network will be scrutinised by the Adoption Panel.

Yes @Widgets this does concern me too. The Muslim community and the south Asian community tend not to look too favourably on adoption. I think there is a social stigma about infertility.

We are limited contact with them anyway (for a variety of reasons not pertaining to this) and there are a few foster carers in the extended family, so I do hope this is indicative of times changing.

To clarify the sneers weren’t ‘oh you want to adopt, why would you want to do that’. It was more along the lines ‘that you know youd never be allowed to adopt because of xyz… (the reasons listed above)

Hello OP, we have decided to pause before going ahead with the process but happy to share a few bits with you.

I could be considered to 'culturally' Muslim. Maybe there is another term but what I mean is I was brought up Muslim but now just participate in the traditions such as Eid and I suppose to a certain extent still live the values just without the beleife part. During our initial meeting with an agency we discussed this lots as they were really keen on anyone who would consider Muslim children. They asked us lots of questions about how we might help them preserve that link etc but also said 'with any child, religion is just one of the many parts of their identity.' We did raise something that they had somewhat overlooked, that just because a child is from a Muslim background it doesn't necessarily mean they would be a good match for us if we didn't also take into account where their heritage was. We know nothing about Sudanese culture for example.They didn't seem to understand that a mosque in a predominantly Pakistani area may be just as alien to an Arab child as a church. As might all our customs.

Anyway I suppose I am saying you might have to spell some things out for them.

My second thing was that there is a guide specifically for Muslim adopters. You might find it useful if you start the process and find that people in your community don't agree with it. It goes through hadiths and readings relating to adoption. I think it was just called the guide to Muslim adoption.

So lovely to hear from you @Somuddled. Can I take it from your post that you’re of Pakistani heritage? So is DH. If you don’t mind me asking, how did you find the wider family’s reaction to your decision to adopt. Some of DHs family are very ‘backward’ in their mentality towards these sort of things and too arrogant to be educated. Whilst these family members would have precious little to do with any adopted child, I’m worried it would reflect negatively. For context they are also unaccepting of a mixed race (white/ pakistani) child

Why are you being vocal and passionate about it while continuing to have birth children? What is the point of that, precisely?

@Rainallnight

Why are you being vocal and passionate about it while continuing to have birth children? What is the point of that, precisely?

What does that even mean?

Can one not have birth children and plan to adopt as long as they are able to and have the means to do so?

Rain, I too have always been pro adoption yet had children before applying to adopt - the adoption process is extensive and had we applied 8 years ago we wouldn't have been considered - still moving around due to job situation for one. We wouldn't have been seen as ready. Doesn't mean we aren't pro adoption, its always been part of the long term plan as I'm sure it is for many people, lots of people choose to grow their family through adoption despite having children already, or without trying themselves etc, its one way to build a family and I cant see why you have a problem with the idea?

I don’t have a problem at all with the idea of growing your family by adoption.

I do have a problem with people who virtue signal by telling everyone they hope to adopt one day, while continuing to have birth children.

Plan to adopt, by all means. But I genuinely don’t get why you would need to be ‘vocal’ and ‘passionate’ about it while not actually adopting.

@Rainallnight

I don’t have a problem at all with the idea of growing your family by adoption.

I do have a problem with people who virtue signal by telling everyone they hope to adopt one day, while continuing to have birth children.

Plan to adopt, by all means. But I genuinely don’t get why you would need to be ‘vocal’ and ‘passionate’ about it while not actually adopting.

Honestly how dare you call it virtue signalling, you do not know me, nor my family nor my life.

If you must know this pregnancy was a surprise. When asked about a third child (which yes happens more often than you think) am I not allowed to say we’d love to adopt?

I posted this thread to help me understand if actually adoption would even be viable for us (as I’d been told by several people, no for the above reasons) not to be trolled. Thanks

Its not virtue signalling to say you want to adopt, its not a virtue thing atall, its one way to build a family.

@Nc4post99 It’s not trolling to express an opinion, last time I checked.

There’s a world of difference between being proactive in offering your views in a passionate and vocal way,
and saying ‘we’d love to adopt’ when asked. You started off with one, but now apparently it’s the other.

I happen to think that people who tell all and sundry that they’d love to adopt while not adopting are enjoying the kudos that comes from some sort of misplaced sense of altruism, while not actually having to accommodate an adopted child in their life.

That’s just my opinion. Not trolling.

[quote Rainallnight]@Nc4post99 It’s not trolling to express an opinion, last time I checked.

There’s a world of difference between being proactive in offering your views in a passionate and vocal way,
and saying ‘we’d love to adopt’ when asked. You started off with one, but now apparently it’s the other.

I happen to think that people who tell all and sundry that they’d love to adopt while not adopting are enjoying the kudos that comes from some sort of misplaced sense of altruism, while not actually having to accommodate an adopted child in their life.

That’s just my opinion. Not trolling.[/quote]
I’d wanted to adopt prior to having bio children from a relatively young age, i had been vocal about that when asked if I planned on having children later in life. Until recently, despite intentions, I had not been in a position where it would be viable (housing, job stability).

Also if you read the post I’m not receiving any kudos for it, rather naysaying. Again mentioned in the post there is a deep deep stigma In my faith community around adoption hence why I feel strongly about wanting to do so in the future (if possible). So no kudos or ‘misplaced altruism’ but thanks for your ‘opinion’

Maybe a different perspective but I am mixed race and my dad is Muslim Indian. I am also gay, so to be honest my experience may be slightly different to yours.

My experience is that often, my Indian side have presented with being very conservative but the reality is they have loved me and my partner and our children regardless. There have been comments made by certain members of the family but to be honest I think they come from a place of ignorance and are often shot down quite quickly by other members of the family.

My family is fairly progressive really but I know there are gay family members who have not come out for fear.

It may also help that I don’t speak Gujarati so I may miss out on a lot of b…..ching!!!

I always think that people may say things that are ignorant but in reality they just need time rather than educating - obviously may be different for you!!!

Also - just don’t mention the family members that are being ignorant! Many people have family members who aren’t involved in their lives which they see once in a blue moon who say offensive things…!!! They only do references of one family member and two friends (or at least this was our experience).

Good luck!

What I would say is that if you are thinking about adopting in the future start looking at therapeutic parenting.
If you parent your bio kids in a therapeutic way, it will give you the ground work for parenting an adopted child.
I adopted a 6 month old. He was taken away from birth. He needs lots of support. The posters above jellycat and ted (who have experience and always give excellent advice on these boards) are right when they talk about the unknown with a small baby. My son has just been diagnosed at 5 (which is earlier than most) I had to be the pushiest parent and get post adoption support to assist. We are in a much better place, but the toddler years were hard work mentally and physically. So planning to work full time is great, but you may need to have a back up plan if it isn’t possible for your child. It wasn’t for mine.

I don't see anything 'virtue signalling' about discussing an idea.

Information I gleaned from social workers specialising in fostering and adoption is that couples who are already parents are better equipped to be adoptive parents. I daresay that is not always the case but appears to be the majority view.

Regarding you being Muslim, as you say you are not very religious but observant, I cannot see a problem; are there Muslim charities which place children with Muslims? I'm just asking because I don't know.

[quote lifehappened]@Ted27 in my experience yes it's because the child remembered. I was there, I lived it. I'm not saying it's the same for everyone but that's what my family lived with, so we know! [/quote]
I think you would know better than most, lifehappened. It's all very well being theoretical but a lived experience is valid.

Babies are often traumatised by being parted from their mothers too. It is advisable for anyone who is considering adopting a baby to read about this. 'The Primal Wound' is very good.

I was adopted as a small baby so I know something about it.

re Babies. I suspect there is a difference between relinquished babies and those removed - in either or both of genetics and pre-birth experiences.

One of mine was removed before they were 1, the other was 6. They both have their own issues, one from knowing/remembering the birth family, one one from not knowing/remembering them. It's swings and roundabouts.

@Plumtree391

I don't see anything 'virtue signalling' about discussing an idea.

Information I gleaned from social workers specialising in fostering and adoption is that couples who are already parents are better equipped to be adoptive parents. I daresay that is not always the case but appears to be the majority view.

Regarding you being Muslim, as you say you are not very religious but observant, I cannot see a problem; are there Muslim charities which place children with Muslims? I'm just asking because I don't know.

This is the thing, I’m not sure about muslim charities for adoption, fostering yes but I’m not sure about adoption. I’d say we’re religious insofar as we are a family that prays (we try our best), fasts, offers charity, dresses modestly (I don’t wear a headscarf but still I wouldn’t wear a bikini/ swim costume to a pool/ beach) and doesn’t drink/ doesnt smoke/ doesn’t gamble/doesn’t eat pork etc but I’d consider us liberal (things like sexuality, gender roles, adoption, basically oppose anything dogmatic),

Just to add to the thread just in case it hasn’t come across, it’s not necessarily that we’d want a baby either, we wouldn’t be opposed but it wouldn’t be a ‘preference’.

You sound great, Nc4. I'd adopt you :-).

These might interest you:
www.coramadoption.org.uk/how-do-you-find-right-child-your-family

pennyappeal.org/storage/app/media/appeals/Adoption%20and%20Fostering/Adoption%20and%20Fostering/Islamic%20Guide/Final%20Islamic%20Adoption%20and%20Fostering%20-%20print%20pdf.pdf

Saira Khan, the television presenter, and her husband adopted a little girl.

I agree with @Ted27 We adopted two ‘easy to place’ , very healthy babies who went into care at birth. Now 3 and 5, they both have a range of complex needs, EHCPs, DLA, and I’ve given up my career in order to be able to attend the never ending string of meetings, appointments and assessments.

While they don’t consciously remember their birth families, they have difficulties related to attachment and experiences in utero and in care.

Had we adopted them at their current age, we’d have had much more idea of what we were taking on and while it wouldn't have been easier, the fight to get their needs met would have been massively less stressful.

@Plumtree391

You sound great, Nc4. I'd adopt you :-).

These might interest you:
www.coramadoption.org.uk/how-do-you-find-right-child-your-family

pennyappeal.org/storage/app/media/appeals/Adoption%20and%20Fostering/Adoption%20and%20Fostering/Islamic%20Guide/Final%20Islamic%20Adoption%20and%20Fostering%20-%20print%20pdf.pdf

Saira Khan, the television presenter, and her husband adopted a little girl.

Oh that document is brilliant thanks for attaching!

I saw Saira Khan on loose women (no judgment lol) talking about it. I think she adopted her little girl from Pakistan though, unfortunately the reaction (at least from what I’ve heard people say) has been really vile, denouncing her as Muslim because of it, when in truth what she’s done is theologically wonderful and highly commended. As that leaflet says the major islamic concern is the child understanding where they come from, which as we know is something SS highly encourage. The mind boggles with some people at times